Detroit

Philosophically is doesn't matter. Either you are a mess or you aren't. It doesn't matter who says it. It's either true or not.

My problem is your reasoning.

Your are using the Fox News techniques of "begging the question", "The Big Lie" and "The Complex Question"... all logical fallacies.

These articles are coming out of New York, who caused the greatest financial collapse in world history.

Yet, New York claims Detroit has problems? And you accept that, without challenge or criticism, and without considering the source? Why?

That is called jumping on the bandwagon. If you had your own independent observations, then that would be different. But, you are making no such assertion.

But, if you are not in Detroit, how can you be sure of anything being said about Detroit?

Detroiters never claimed the city needed bankruptcy, only those not from Detroit. Rick Snyder, Governor, who is white and not even from Detroit, on his own decided to try and force Detroit into bankruptcy.

1 white boy trumps 700,000 Detroiters.

How does that make any sense?

Then you have the problem that you are a creating a false dichotomy. That is another logical fallacy.

How in the world are you qualified to talk about what problems Detroit does or does not have?

Are you from Detroit? Do you know anyone in Detroit who has given you special insight? Have you ever lived in Detroit?

What makes you so expert on what Detroit needs or does not need?

... especially over myself.

Haven't you been on this board enough to notice that a fault shouldn't be avoided just because it was stated from a source you don't want to hear it from.


Once again, you shouldn't act like the people paid to represent Detroit citizens don't matter. They are asking for bailouts.

On a tangent point, I hate when QueEx creates new thread from an existing thread. The Kwame Kilpatrick indictment clearly outlined the damage he did very well. In addition, the election of the subsequent mayor clearly outlined the uphill battle he would have to face.

There are multiple examples of Detroit not acknowledging reality. Whether it's couldn't or wouldn't is debatable. But it seems obvious that they didn't. A mid-size city declared bankruptcy after collecting $18 billion in debt. That's a mess.

You said representatives for Detroit are asking for bailouts.

Who said it? When? Do you have any links? First post these people and what they said so that an informed response can be made.

You keep singling Detroit out as if it is something worthy of some special contempt. Why? You don't say New York or LA is not acknowledging reality when the attacks are coming from them. Why? Why can't you accept that they are more delusional than Detroit. How can the mass murderer criticize the jaywalker?

The bankruptcy is still in Federal Court. You know why? Because Detroiters are fighting it tooth and nail. Why? Because they never asked for it.

The only reason this whole bankruptcy issue came about was because of 1 white boy (Slick Rick Snyder) who wanted to neutralize the black leadership of Detroit.

Yet, you can't seem to wait to agree with 1 white boy, who is not even from Detroit, over the hundreds of thousands of black people who actually live there.

Your arguments against Detroit are filled with logical holes.

You need to fill them first if you are seriously trying to understand what is happening here.

Detroiters do not like it when outsiders try to stick their nose in their business.

You haven't seemed to have learned that yet, so I will just have to let you know directly.
 
Cruise, just make a New York thread. It's not reasonable to deny that Detroit is a mess because New York is a mess as well. New York or anyone else criticizing Detroit is valid if it's true. One crack addict can call out another.

I don't understand why you shifted to a denial approach regarding people asking for a bailout. I said just Google "Detroit ask for bailout." It's full of the Congressional Black Caucus and city council members saying Obama "owes" it to blacks in Detroit because they voted for him. You act like the only person that counts is the Mayor or something.

You've basically reverted back to my original question. There is no such thing as a valid criticism or a valid story about Detroit?
 
Cruise, just make a New York thread. It's not reasonable to deny that Detroit is a mess because New York is a mess as well. New York or anyone else criticizing Detroit is valid if it's true. One crack addict can call out another.

I don't understand why you shifted to a denial approach regarding people asking for a bailout. I said just Google "Detroit ask for bailout." It's full of the Congressional Black Caucus and city council members saying Obama "owes" it to blacks in Detroit because they voted for him. You act like the only person that counts is the Mayor or something.

You've basically reverted back to my original question. There is no such thing as a valid criticism or a valid story about Detroit?

But, you haven't answered my question, what makes it valid?

Nor, my question, is this your personal knowledge or are you relying on others (namely whites and Jews)?

You have already detemined Detroit is a mess. In what way, you still have not stated. All you said is that Detroit declared bankruptcy, which it did not.

Slick Rick Snyder and his boy declared bankruptcy, not Detroit nor Detroiters. And, Detroiters are fighting that!

So, what is this criticism and this mess you keep talking about, besides bankruptcy, which I just showed is pure garbage.

What else do you have to say bad about Detroit?

It's like you are just not listening to anything about Detroit, unless it is negative, unless it agrees with the Jews/whites, unless it is a way to make things seem worse than they are.

I am trying to explain to you how Detroit works, but it just seems like you are not interested in that discussion... only in talking about how Detroit is a mess (not anything positive or constructive... just white/Jew bashing of Detroit).

Then, you wonder why Detroiters would view that suspiciously. We've heard it all before... for decades. And, yet, look at that, Detroit is still here and will continue to be here.

What Detroiters want to know, is what are you going to do to fix the mess that you claim is there?
 
Cruise, a mid-size city has $18 billion in liabilities. They saw white-flight and their tax base decreasing and decided to supplement their revenue with debt. If this was the federal government, you would readily rail against that. Detroit like most corrupt cities have pension liabilities they can't afford, and just like Chicago didn't contribute the required amount to their public pension plans even during boom times.

You think it was some mass conspiracy, but Detroit by your admission was still in decline like the rest of the country. Things were not going to get better. It wasn't going to magically replace that lost population, new businesses weren't flooding into the city, and those unions weren't going to renegotiate their pensions.

You keep ignoring that your federal, state and local representatives aren't saying Detroit is fine. They are saying bailout our liabilities. That Watson woman on the city council was saying the Democrats owe them. And that doesn't even include the places like Flint calling for bailouts of Detroit to ease the path to their own bailouts.

How is that not a mess?
 
Cruise, a mid-size city has $18 billion in liabilities. They saw white-flight and their tax base decreasing and decided to supplement their revenue with debt. If this was the federal government, you would readily rail against that. Detroit like most corrupt cities have pension liabilities they can't afford, and just like Chicago didn't contribute the required amount to their public pension plans even during boom times.

You think it was some mass conspiracy, but Detroit by your admission was still in decline like the rest of the country. Things were not going to get better. It wasn't going to magically replace that lost population, new businesses weren't flooding into the city, and those unions weren't going to renegotiate their pensions.

You keep ignoring that your federal, state and local representatives aren't saying Detroit is fine. They are saying bailout our liabilities. That Watson woman on the city council was saying the Democrats owe them. And that doesn't even include the places like Flint calling for bailouts of Detroit to ease the path to their own bailouts.

How is that not a mess?

First, I hate when anyone says that no whites means failure for black people (as if black people are inferior to whites). That is just racist bullshit. No one in Detroit gives a flying fuck about white flight, if it means the loans are still coming, and the insurance is affordable. In fact, I love/loved not having whites in Detroit, in my neighborhood. So, that white flight excuse for the "mess" (as you call it) is ridiculous.

What people care about is the fact the banks and the insurance companies basically closed all lending, investment, and affordable insurance. And, of course, these were controlled by whites and Jews.

The tax base decreased, not because of the city of Detroit or black people, but because of white/Jew fuckups at the local banks, and the auto companies. The city of Detroit had absolutely no control over GM, Chrysler, NBD, Michigan National, Comerica, or any of the other corporations that did their best to destroy Detroit through incompetence, corruption, and laziness.

It wasn't black people because we didn't have that control.

Secondly, I would rail against the Federal government because they have this thing called the printing press to cover-up all their incompetence (which is practically controlled from New York). Detroit has always known it had to be responsible, which is why it is outrageous for New York to be calling Detroit corrupt.

Detroit cannot just magically print dollars to bail itself out (like Wall Street did in 2008 and every year since). Detroit has to be responsible and conservative.

You see, Detroit has to pay its bills and carry its own weight, unlike those leeches in New York.

Third, I still don't know which politicians you are talking about. No one running for Mayor is saying Detroit is in a mess. And, no one running for City Council is saying that either. So, I'm not sure who you are talking about that is saying Detroit is a mess.

Joann Watson has been calling on Obama do something for Detroit (any DAMN thing) since Detroit came through for him. It is not a bailout per se, but just do SOME THING!

The only one, I know for sure, screaming about Detroit is in trouble, is the white boy Rick Snyder. That is it! You haven't shown any politicians from Detroit who were talking about bankruptcy before he came along. And, I would trust Detroiters over some outsider white boy any day of the week. The black Detroit politicians have kept Detroit running for the past 40 years.
So, they get the benefit of the doubt.

If you have someone other than Joann Watson, post some names, links, and statements. I am from Detroit, know Detroit, and know how it works.

It just bewilders me why you think you are qualified to speak on Detroit and you are not even from here.

Once again, valid is whatever is accurate.

And, I said that what you posted, from Jew York is not accurate.

Why is that so hard to understand or accept?
 
So we're back to the beginning. No such thing as valid criticism.

You didn't call anything I pointed out untrue. You just dismissed it as white love, commented about federal fiscal hypocrisy, didn't address pensions, and when I named a name at your insistence you just say name somebody else.

Cruise, does Detroit have problems of its own making that were not going to get better and would have continued a trend of negative growth?
 
So we're back to the beginning. No such thing as valid criticism.

You didn't call anything I pointed out untrue. You just dismissed it as white love, commented about federal fiscal hypocrisy, didn't address pensions, and when I named a name at your insistence you just say name somebody else.

Cruise, does Detroit have problems of its own making that were not going to get better and would have continued a trend of negative growth?

Why do you keep going back to the beginning?

You are determined to say Detroit is a mess but have provided no evidence that it is. Instead of asking and then discussing, and then coming to an informed conclusion, you want to just imitate whitey, "Detroit bad. Black people bad. White is good."

Does the slave have problems of its own making that wasn't caused by the slavemaster?

Does the raped woman have problems of her own making that the rapist did not cause?

Does the war prisoner have problems in the prison camp that the enemy did not cause?

Does Africa have problems of its own making that whites did not cause?

You seem fixated on trying to blame black people in Detroit, when whites caused and are causing all the problems.

Until the white/Jew problem is solved, there will never be any solutions or forward progress the way Detroit can really make.

Detroit is in the middle of a race war, and you are determined to side with the white/Jews.

Well, you are not alone, and Detroiters have been dealing with that, and surviving for decades.

You see, I don't just run my lip and join with whitey/hymie. I am in Detroit giving my time, energy, money, and expertise. And, see the absolute hell whitey/Jew boy is trying to make for black people.

Your goal here appears to be to blame the black man. How original.
 
Why do you keep going back to the beginning?

You are determined to say Detroit is a mess but have provided no evidence that it is. Instead of asking and then discussing, and then coming to an informed conclusion, you want to just imitate whitey, "Detroit bad. Black people bad. White is good."

Does the slave have problems of its own making that wasn't caused by the slavemaster?

Does the raped woman have problems of her own making that the rapist did not cause?

Does the war prisoner have problems in the prison camp that the enemy did not cause?

Does Africa have problems of its own making that whites did not cause?

You seem fixated on trying to blame black people in Detroit, when whites caused and are causing all the problems.

Until the white/Jew problem is solved, there will never be any solutions or forward progress the way Detroit can really make.

Detroit is in the middle of a race war, and you are determined to side with the white/Jews.

Well, you are not alone, and Detroiters have been dealing with that, and surviving for decades.

You see, I don't just run my lip and join with whitey/hymie. I am in Detroit giving my time, energy, money, and expertise. And, see the absolute hell whitey/Jew boy is trying to make for black people.

Your goal here appears to be to blame the black man. How original.
You say you care about logical fallacies then you keep insisting we should defer to your (appeal to) authority on the matter.

If Detroit is fine, then we'll see it when the city council votes to end the Emergency Manager's authority next year. Detroit can petition to come out of bankruptcy unscathed without giving up any assets or renegotiating any pension agreements.

My guess is they'll take this chance to dump liabilities left and right. We'll see.
 
You say you care about logical fallacies then you keep insisting we should defer to your (appeal to) authority on the matter.

If Detroit is fine, then we'll see it when the city council votes to end the Emergency Manager's authority next year. Detroit can petition to come out of bankruptcy unscathed without giving up any assets or renegotiating any pension agreements.

My guess is they'll take this chance to dump liabilities left and right. We'll see.

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
Person A makes claim C about subject S.
Therefore, C is true.

This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.

This sort of reasoning is fallacious when the person in question is not an expert. In such cases the reasoning is flawed because the fact that an unqualified person makes a claim does not provide any justification for the claim. The claim could be true, but the fact that an unqualified person made the claim does not provide any rational reason to accept the claim as true.

If you doubt my background in Detroit, then you can claim this. Are you? If not, their is no appeal to authority because I AM AN AUTHORITY!

Now, if you don't accept that, then it is a different discussion.

...

How can things be fine in Detroit when you have hostile whites/Jews waging a financial, social, cultural, political, economic, and media war against black people in Detroit? Then you have the whites murdering, terrorizing black people under the pretense of the DEA, ATF, FBI, State police, County Sheriff, local police (e.g. Joseph Weekley).

This is just another skirmish in the battle and it won't end anytime soon.

Detroit is a prize that is being battled over right now.

I wonder who will win.
 
The expert authority in question should be one in Public Finance. Being an expert in Jew Blaming is not valid here and living in Detroit doesn't automatically make you an expert on their financial position.

I don't know who you are or what you do, but you haven't given any reason to believe that you have access and understanding regarding the city's finances to declare yourself an authority.

Ultimately, at least you openly acknowledge that things aren't "fine" in Detroit. If you want to nuance it away from a "mess" then fine.

I think Detroit is a mess just like other cities are a mess. Chicago is run by whites, so I disagree that it's a race thing. I believe it revolves around values. You seem to speak out against bad values in general then make excuses for Detroit.
 
The expert authority in question should be one in Public Finance. Being an expert in Jew Blaming is not valid here and living in Detroit doesn't automatically make you an expert on their financial position.

I don't know who you are or what you do, but you haven't given any reason to believe that you have access and understanding regarding the city's finances to declare yourself an authority.

Ultimately, at least you openly acknowledge that things aren't "fine" in Detroit. If you want to nuance it away from a "mess" then fine.

I think Detroit is a mess just like other cities are a mess. Chicago is run by whites, so I disagree that it's a race thing. I believe it revolves around values. You seem to speak out against bad values in general then make excuses for Detroit.

To me, it is these financial "experts" that have caused all these problems.

Because they are always Jews/whites (or trained by whites/Jews to advance the white/Jew agenda of race supremacy).

I cannot take seriously anything said by financial "experts" because they have no authority in my opinion.

However, I will believe people who live, work, and know Detroit over some so-called New York financial "expert" or Baltimore house slave or white boy Rick Snyder or the Jew press of the State-run media.

If you believe this is not a race war AND do not recognize or respect my experience, knowledge, or background, then I guess really, there is no way to discuss this because you are operating from a different premise than I am.

It will just be a war of words.
 
To me, it is these financial "experts" that have caused all these problems.

Because they are always Jews/whites (or trained by whites/Jews to advance the white/Jew agenda of race supremacy).

I cannot take seriously anything said by financial "experts" because they have no authority in my opinion.

However, I will believe people who live, work, and know Detroit over some so-called New York financial "expert" or Baltimore house slave or white boy Rick Snyder or the Jew press of the State-run media.

If you believe this is not a race war AND do not recognize or respect my experience, knowledge, or background, then I guess really, there is no way to discuss this because you are operating from a different premise than I am.

It will just be a war of words.
Well, it is a discussion board, so the only thing that can be achieved here is a "war of words."

Experts do have value, however, experts are rarely followed by people with authority, i.e. politicians. Politicians follow expert advice to the extent where it delivers votes. That's why policies normally provide half-ass results at best.

People blame economist for the government policies that cause recessions when it's really the fault of political economist. By political economist I'm not talking about economist that specialize in Political Economy, which is a recognized discipline. I'm talking about the economist that make most of their money on being politically relevant like Paul Krugman or Mark Zandi. Those are the enablers of politicians that produce terrible results.

I believe a race war exist but this is not an example of it. I believe the primary divisor of humanity is economic based. Many people in history have pointed out that a poor rural white in Kentucky has more in common with a poor urban black than with Jaime Dimon, but they will side with Dimon every time. Kevin Orr and Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel would probably get along great, and a middle-class white that fled to the burbs because "black people were ruining Detroit" would find alot of common ground with you if you eliminated "Jews/whites" rhetoric from your analysis.
 





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^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for posting that.

The Detroit "experts" and white/Jew boy lovers couldn't wait to side with New York about its diagnosis of Detroit. And, of course, that meant, "blame it on the black man."

I come in here to try and explain what is really happening, and yet they are determined to believe the New York Detroit "experts" instead of someone who is actually in Detroit.

The white/Jew's water is always colder in the Politics Forum with some posters.

The Real Reason the Once Great City of Detroit Came to Ruin
The politics of Mayor Coleman Young drove out the white and black middle class.​

The above garbage is the trash the white/Jew Wall Street Journal posted out of Jew York, about Detroit. Big surprise, it is a worship of whites and a hit piece on black ability.

These are the lies the white/Jew-stream media feed to the world about the chocolate city. And, you actually have black people stupid enough to believe this garbage without challenging it and with someone on the board telling it is outright lies.

Well, at least not all black people are white/Jew-loving house slaves. And those in Detroit, had to go to the Detroit Library to get information about what actually happened in Detroit.

Of course, that is too much work for Jew York City, because that means they wouldn't be able to demonize the black man.
 
6da73d24-ee74-4e6f-a5ed-0d06b61950e0.jpg



Kevyn Orr Turns Off The Electricity In Downtown Detroit
Without Prior Notification Trapping People In Elevators
& Causing General Chaos


September 12, 2013

http://www.eclectablog.com/2013/09/...-heat-wave-stranding-people-in-elevators.html

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23415960/what-is-the-cause-of-detroits-power-outage
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for an excellent post.

Informative. Insightful. Balanced.

I actually learned something. Was wondering why the power went out in such specific parts of the city.

It's nice seeing people post information about Detroit from sources that are actually INFORMED ABOUT Detroit.

The white/Jew lovers were posting Jew York propaganda about Detroit and taking that as gospel as if Jews can see 600 miles away from Manhattan, what is happening in Detroit.

These white/Jew York lovers will then attack Detroiters for daring to set the record straight about their own city, which exposes the white/Jew lies and hate.

Jew York City has been waging a decades-long propaganda war against Detroit because Jews HATE black people in leadership.

Yet, some posters can't wait to defend these Jews so they can attack black leadership.

Is the Politics forum a haven for the house slave/sellout/Uncle Tom?
 
Cruise, have you ever noticed how people declare things legitimate just because something matches their sensabilities?

Have you also noticed that when something goes against one's sensibility, it's labeled in the most vile terms possible?

Have you notice people who disagree with a certain sensibility are considered illegitimate and vile?
 
Cruise, have you ever noticed how people declare things legitimate just because something matches their sensabilities?

Have you also noticed that when something goes against one's sensibility, it's labeled in the most vile terms possible?

Have you notice people who disagree with a certain sensibility are considered illegitimate and vile?

Everyone is entitled to an INFORMED OPINION.

No one is entitled to be stupid.
 
I guess my post has ended all relevant comments on the bashing of Black folk, at least on Detroit's political Black leadership.
 
Detroit bankruptcy foes beg for judge's help

Detroit bankruptcy foes beg for judge's help
By ED WHITE | Associated Press
Thu, Sep 19, 2013

DETROIT (AP) — It all came down to three minutes.

It took decades of mismanagement to build the massive problems that plunged Detroit into bankruptcy. Lawyers will spend months in court sorting out the city's finances.

But the people most affected, the retirees and residents, often aren't at the table. For a few brief moments Thursday, they got the chance to tell a judge about what the mistakes will mean for them. How they'll make ends meet. How they feel robbed after decades of service. How the city seems on the verge of breaking the promise of a pension.

But each had just three minutes — 180 seconds — to make the case.

Some used canes. Some wore their Sunday best. All were passionate, even when soft-spoken. For the first time since the city filed for Chapter 9 protection, surrendering under $18 billion in long-term debt, most attorneys were in the back row listening while taxpayers were at the front talking.

"I object to being referred to as a creditor," said retiree Paulette Brown, a former water department employee who got notice of the bankruptcy because her pension is at risk. "What I am is a dedicated public servant. ... Who's going to prison for the proposed cruelty to retirees?"

City resident Sylvester Davis invoked a higher power: "If you've got God in you," he told the judge, "do the right thing. Disallow this mess."

Judge Steven Rhodes replied: "Well spoken, sir."

Detroit has filed for bankruptcy protection but that question remains unsettled until a trial in late October. Creditors, residents and others have a right to object to the city's eligibility. And under the rules, they also have a right to be heard.

A red light went on if speakers exceeded the three-minute limit, but the judge was generous, often allowing people to keep talking. He left it to a courtroom guard to remove anyone who simply wouldn't stop.

The judge clearly was moved by the hearing and called the remarks "thoughtful, compassionate, compelling."

Indeed, most objections were deeply personal. Retirees frightened that pensions could be reduced told Rhodes that monthly payments are a life ring that keeps them out of poverty. The Michigan Constitution says public pensions can't be impaired, although Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr and his legal team say that doesn't automatically make them off limits in a bankruptcy.

Rhodes heard many complaints about Orr, appointed by Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder to fix Detroit's finances. He recommended bankruptcy and is not accountable to voters. Critics argue the state's emergency manager law is unconstitutional and, as a result, makes the bankruptcy case illegitimate.

"I call on you to protect these flesh-and-blood people ... over corporations who preyed on the city of Detroit and knew better," said William Hickey, a resident for more than 50 years who tends community gardens.

Cynthia Blair said she relies on a $3,000-a-month pension earned by her husband, a police sergeant, who died in 2004. Jacqueline Esters, a pensioner who made $2.24 an hour when she got her first city job in 1968, summed up her view of Detroit these days as "promises made, promises broken."

Aleta Atchison-Jorgan worked in the housing department when she retired in 2004 after 30 years with Detroit. She spent hours on her computer studying pension details, then typed her thoughts and practiced speaking in front of her husband before appearing in court.

"I'm not a mathematician. I wanted to know what I was talking about. We're entitled to a pension. ... Why would I sit back?" Atchison-Jorgan later said outside court.

Another Detroit resident, Jean Vortkamp, got emotional as she described the bleak state of city services. She said the body of a young homicide victim remained on her street for five hours before being removed.

"Detroit is not an airline or a cupcake company. We are a family that deserves respect," Vortkamp told the judge.

After listening for more than three hours, the judge summoned an attorney for the city, Bruce Bennett, who acknowledged the anxieties of retirees and said "bankruptcy is never a good thing."

Nonetheless, he added, Detroit's problems are "enormously complex."

Rhodes kept his attention on the speakers, rarely looking away as they stood a few feet from him at a microphone. He said anyone with a stake in the case who couldn't attend the hearing should listen to a recording on the court's website, especially Snyder and Orr.

"Democracy demands nothing less," Rhodes said.

http://news.yahoo.com/detroit-bankruptcy-foes-beg-judges-help-210552163--finance.html
 
Report: Chicago's Pension Woes Worse Than Detroit's

Report: Chicago's Pension Woes Worse Than Detroit's
The city's pension liabilities are nearly 700 percent the size of revenues, far exceeding troubled Detroit's ratio
By DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN
September 26, 2013

Detroit may be notorious for its fiscal problems, but by one measure, it is far healthier than many of its peers. Chicago, Los Angeles, and Houston are just a few of the cities with bigger pension problems than Detroit, according to a new report from Moody's Investor Service.

Among the 50 local governments with the most debt, the City of Chicago has the most ground to make up on its pensions. The city's pension liabilities were equal to 678 percent of its revenues as of 2011, and Cook County (which contains Chicago and some of its suburbs) comes in next, with pension liabilities that equal nearly 382 percent of its revenue.

Below are the 10 local governments with the largest pension liabilities as a share of revenues.

Rank---Debt Issuer---Pension Liabilities as Percentage of Revenue
1. Chicago 678.2 percent
2. Cook County (Ill.) 381.6
3. Denver County School District 1 341.6
4. Jacksonville, Fl. 326.9
5. Los Angeles 324.5
6. Metro. Water Reclamation District of Chicago 323.4
7. Houston 312.4
8. Dallas 292.5
9. Clark County (Nev.) School District 259.1
10. Phoenix 240.2

Note: Some school districts, as well as Chicago's water reclamation district, issue their own debt, so they are listed separately from their cities.

Altogether, 30 of the 50 largest government issuers of debt have ratios over 100 percent, enough to cause "material financial strain" for many governments, according to the Moody's report.

"A lot of the problems that are more on the severe side are driven by governments not making the required payments into the pension plans," says Tom Aaron, analyst at Moody's and one of the report's authors.

Pensions have come to the forefront of the national dialogue with a recent spate of local government bankruptcies. Detroit's July petition made it the largest local bankruptcy in U.S. history, and its pensions gained extra scrutiny when the city's bankruptcy filing included a proposal to reduce pension payouts.

That city's pension liabilities represent 157.3 percent of its revenues, and the Detroit Public School District has a slightly deeper hole, at nearly 180 percent.

Which is not to say that Chicago, Jacksonville, and other financially troubled cities are headed for Detroit's fate, says Aaron. He points to Motor City's many other economic problems, not least of which is a long and deep population decline.

"Pensions are one of many factors that go into our bond ratings, and that go into the fiscal health of a community or city," he says.

Detroit's bond rating from Moody's is at Caa3, meaning it has a relatively high credit risk. Detroit's public school district likewise is rated B2, meaning those bonds are also relatively risky. Of the 50 local governments that have issued the most debt, only three have ratings in the B or C categories. Moody's rating scale ranges from C on the low end to Aaa.

Still, other cities aren't immune to bad ratings. Moody's recently cut Chicago's bond rating from Aa3 to A3 and also cut Cook County from Aa3 to A1. In both cases, the ratings agency cited pension liabilities, according to Bloomberg.

A low credit rating can make it harder for a government to borrow money, as it often brings with it higher interest rates as investors try to avoid risk. For many local governments, more financial troubles – and, potentially, more downgrades – could be on the way.

"Detroit's not the only distressed city in the country," Aaron says. "In general we view the pool of local governments in distress as growing."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/26/report-chicagos-pension-woes-worse-than-detroits
 
Black people in Detroit have either given up all hope or lost their GODDAMN minds.

These fools voted in an unqualified white boy for Mayor of Detroit OVER A QUALIFIED BLACK MAN.

I think I am going to be sick.

8 years of Obama, now 4 years of white-trash Mike Duggan.

This is hell.

Black people just voted to go to hell.
 
Black people in Detroit have either given up all hope or lost their GODDAMN minds.

These fools voted in an unqualified white boy for Mayor of Detroit OVER A QUALIFIED BLACK MAN.

I think I am going to be sick.

8 years of Obama, now 4 years of white-trash Mike Duggan.

This is hell.

Black people just voted to go to hell.

They let Kwame get George Zimmerman by the media, finding him suspicious for just being Mayor.


Arnold Schwarzenegger has a child running around that looks like a hispanic version of him. The media was unable to figure this information out, until he left office.

Yet the media in Detroit sent Lois Lane to ferret out some relationship with his Chief of Staff that was being used to extort a settlement with the city.

arnoldexposed.com


I guess when you are Aryan, you can't do no wrong. Look at all the info that does not get reported by anybody.
 
Will downtown Detroit be a white enclave?

Finley: Will downtown Detroit be a white enclave?
Nolan Finley
NOVEMBER 17, 2013 AT 1:00 AM

The divide around here once was between Detroit and the suburbs. Now, in the words of race warrior Shirley Stancato, it’s becoming between “downtown and those other people.”

The other people the New Detroit head is talking about live in Detroit’s rapidly disintegrating neighborhoods. They’re largely African-American, and a high percentage are poor. Downtown, meanwhile, is a magnet for creative and upwardly mobile young people of both races, but the tilt is heavily toward whites.

“It’s an issue,” says Stancato, whose organization is dedicated to closing the racial divide.

“It’s a symptom of concerns that are just underneath the surface.”

The resentment broke through during the recent Detroit mayoral campaign. The downtown vs. neighborhoods conflict became a sub-theme that both candidates had to address on the campaign trail.

How could it not? Downtown seems immune to Detroit’s broken finances. It’s booming thanks to private investments and its sudden emergence as a cool city for young people to live and work in.

Private dollars take care of everything from street clean-up to security within the downtown and Midtown zones.

It’s a different story in the neighborhoods, where the city’s inability to fund basic services is evident on nearly every block.

Something else is bubbling, too. A lot of nights you can stand in downtown Detroit and think you were in Minneapolis instead of at the core of the blackest city in America.

With a few exceptions, the new hip hotspots have an overwhelmingly white clientele. Often, the downtown crowd is an almost exact reversal of the city’s 80 percent black, 20 percent white and others racial makeup.

I talked with several downtown denizens over the past few weeks, and all seem to have noticed the same thing, but they can’t say for sure why it’s happening. Most say diversity is one of the things that draws them to Detroit.

A few offered that its a natural reflection of the influx of new downtown residents and workers, who are predominately white.

But there are still more than 600,000 African-Americans living in the city. And yet you can often find more diversity in the bars and restaurants of Birmingham than in the ones downtown.

Stancato says it’s not something we can shrug off. “The response has to be intentional,” she says. “Are we focused on this and are we willing to have a conversation about it?”

New Detroit is working on programs to help white and black young people, particularly those living in Detroit, get comfortable with each other.

Over my nearly four decades of working downtown, there are few subjects I’ve become more weary of than the racial divide. Even so, I can recognize that no good can come of making the central city a white enclave.

Stancato is right. This merits an intentional response, and a lot more talk.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...1/Finley-Will-downtown-Detroit-white-enclave-
 
Detroit to get crucial ruling in bankruptcy case

Detroit to get crucial ruling in bankruptcy case
By ED WHITE | Associated Press
7 hrs ago

DETROIT (AP) — A judge was expected to announce Tuesday whether Detroit can come up with a plan to get rid of $18 billion in debt in the largest public bankruptcy in U.S. history, a case that ultimately could crack a shield protecting public pensions and also put the city's extraordinary art collection up for grabs.

Judge Steven Rhodes will declare whether Detroit is eligible to stay in court, more than four months after filing for Chapter 9 protection.
http://news.yahoo.com/detroit-crucial-ruling-bankruptcy-case-061034373--finance.html
 
Judge: Detroit eligible for Chapter 9 bankruptcy

Judge: Detroit eligible for Chapter 9 bankruptcy
By ED WHITE | Associated Press
9 mins ago

DETROIT (AP) — Detroit is eligible to shed billions in debt in the largest public bankruptcy in U.S. history, a judge said Tuesday in a long-awaited decision that now shifts the case toward how the city will accomplish that task.

Judge Steven Rhodes turned down objections from unions, pension funds and retirees, which, like other creditors, could lose under any plan to solve $18 billion in long-term liabilities.
http://news.yahoo.com/judge-detroit-eligible-chapter-9-bankruptcy-163328357--finance.html
 
Chinese investors are buying up Detroit

Chinese investors are buying up Detroit
Real estate buyers are snapping up dozens of properties, often sight unseen. Where else can you buy a 2-story home in the US for $39?
By Gordon G. Chang, Forbes Contributor
Tue 12:08 PM

Detroit, broke with almost no prospects for recovery, is the fourth most popular U.S. destination for Chinese real estate investors.

And it was bad news -- the city's July 18 bankruptcy filing -- that triggered renewed interest. "While the bankruptcy is viewed as a bad thing elsewhere, it raised the exposure level of Detroit's real estate market in China," says Evonne Xu, a Michigan attorney catering to Chinese purchasers. Middle Kingdom, meet Motown.

Chinese shoppers can't resist a bargain. Where else can you buy a two-story home in the U.S. for $39? China Central Television, the state broadcaster, in March reported that two houses in Detroit cost the same as a pair of leather shoes. No wonder a poster on Sina Weibo, the Twitter-like service, pitched, "Seven-hundred thousand people, quiet, clean air, no pollution, democracy -- what are you waiting for?"

Who says the Chinese are waiting? Dongdu International Group of Shanghai bought, sight unseen, two downtown icons, the David Stott building for $4.2 million and the Detroit Free Press building for $9.4 million, both at auction this September.

Moreover, Chinese purchasers are making bulk purchases of inexpensive properties -- those selling for $25,000 or less -- in the rings surrounding the city center. "They're banking on the downtown resurgence spiraling out into those rings," explains Kelly Sweeney of Coldwell Banker Weir Manuel. Mainland parties often buy at tax and foreclosure sales, hold their property and patiently wait for appreciation.

The Chinese certainly have made an impact on the locals in Detroit. "I have people calling and saying, "I'm serious -- I wanna buy 100, 200 properties,'" said Caroline Chen, a real estate broker in nearby Troy, Michigan, to Quartz.com. "They say 'We don't need to see them. Just pick the good ones.'" Chen reports that one of her colleagues sold 30 properties to a Chinese investor.

The Chinese are coming, but what are they doing? Dongdu International will make a big contribution to downtown by redeveloping the Detroit Free Press building, turning it into a retail and residential complex, but that ambitious plan appears to be the exception. China's rich are investing in the Motor City like they invest in their own country, where they buy multiple units at a time. In China, like here, they often keep their acquisitions vacant, treating new properties like stores of value.

The Chinese buy-and-hold tactics in Detroit suggest patience, but that's not the whole story. The bigger story is that the parking of wealth offshore indicates capital flight. The Chinese have only 13% of their wealth outside China, according to Oliver Williams of WealthInsight, while the global average is 20% to 30%, so some of transfers of wealth abroad are normal for a developing society.

But it's not just money that is fleeing. A study conducted by Bank of China and Hurun found that more than half of China’s millionaires have taken steps to emigrate or are considering doing so. This statistic tells us the transfers of cash out of China are not just normal diversification.

There is substantial disagreement as to how much Chinese individuals have already stashed offshore. Boston Consulting Group estimates they hold $450 billion in assets outside their country, and WealthInsight believes the number to be $658 billion.

Yet everyone agrees that the figure, whatever it is, will go up fast. Boston Consulting, for instance, predicts offshore assets will double in three years. CNBC late last month called the movement of Chinese capital "one of the largest and most rapid wealth migrations of our time: hundreds of billions of dollars, and waves of millionaires flowing out of China to overseas destinations."

So the Chinese buying up Detroit says less about the prospects of Motown than what they think of their own country. It’s not like the Motor City is a good place to invest. It has what is surely the worst housing market in the U.S. "I've been in the Detroit area for 35 years," says Chen, the broker from Troy. "Thirty-five years ago downtown Detroit was like this, and it’s not getting better."

She's right. After all, who can love a city where the most powerful figure is a bankruptcy judge, the state has had to take over the local government, and creditors are about to cart off the art museum?

But as grim as the future is for Motown, it is evidently better than China's, at least according to many Chinese. They are pouring their cash into Detroit.

http://money.msn.com/investing/post--chinese-investors-are-buying-up-detroit
 
Detroit's abandoned buildings draw tourists instead of developers

Detroit's abandoned buildings draw tourists instead of developers
Detroit has seen an uptick in history buffs and photographers visiting its ruins since its bankruptcy filing.
By Alana Semuels
December 25, 2013, 4:33 p.m.

DETROIT — He'd heard stories of ruin and blight, but that didn't prepare Oliver Kearney for what he saw:

Prostitutes roaming the streets at 8 a.m., rubble-strewn parking lots overrun with weeds, buildings taken over by bright pink graffiti, the message scrawled on blackboards in deserted schools: "I will not write in vacant buildings."

He took 2,000 photographs his first day.

"No other American city has seen decline on this scale," Kearney said. "It's really a once-in-a-lifetime thing you're going to see."

And he saw it all on a tour.

Kearney, an 18-year-old aspiring architect, persuaded his father to travel with him from Britain to Detroit to participate in one of the city's few burgeoning industries: tours of abandoned factories, churches and schools.

Led by tour guide Jesse Welter, they crawled on their hands and knees to peek inside a train station closed long ago; they squeezed through a gap in a fence to climb the stairs of what was once a luxury high-rise; they ducked under crumbling doorways to see a forgotten ballroom where the Who held its first U.S. concert.

"In Detroit, you can relate, you can see traces of what's happened, you can really feel the history of a city," Kearney said. "In Europe, when things become derelict, they'll demolish them."

That's not possible here. The city estimates it has 78,000 vacant structures, and demolishing each derelict residential building costs $8,000 — money the bankrupt city can't afford.

The city says that 85% of its 142.9 square miles had "experienced population decline" over the last decade, and efforts to persuade investors to buy commercial buildings and rehabilitate them have been mixed, at best. For example, plans to turn the Michigan Central Depot, a once-grand train station, into a casino and then into police headquarters have gone nowhere, and it's stood empty since 1988.

Photographers have flocked to the city to capture the decline; two French photographers even produced a book, "The Ruins of Detroit." But since the city declared bankruptcy in July, hotels say they've seen an uptick in visitors inquiring about the ruins. So have restaurants in the up-and-coming district of Corktown, near the abandoned train station.

Welter says he had to buy a 12-seat van to accommodate the growing interest.

Welter once worked as an aircraft mechanic and then an ATM repairman. He dabbled in photography and began venturing into the city from his home in the suburb of Royal Oak, taking pictures of derelict buildings and selling the shots at an artists market.

The photos, though grim, brought back sweet memories: Viewers would remember passing through the train station in its glory, or recall photographs of their grandparents honeymooning at a posh hotel, depicted in Welter's photos as a decaying tower.

Welter, 42, figured that if other people were interested in seeing the buildings, he could guide them around and, perhaps more important, keep them safe. In October, two tourists were carjacked while visiting an abandoned factory; others have been assaulted there.

Welter guided his first tour in late 2011, but the business has really picked up this year. His clients pay $45 for a three-hour tour and explore some of Detroit's most famously blighted structures: the Packard Automotive Plant, the train station and the East Grand Boulevard Methodist Church, which features peeling paint and vast balconies.

Welter, who is bearded and slim, knows how to sneak into buildings closed to the public. He knows which neighborhoods are plagued by packs of feral dogs, and which ramshackle building contains a recording studio with equipment still set up as if its occupants just left for lunch. He knows the churches so well that he helped a young couple find an abandoned one in which to conduct their wedding.

It's not legal, per se, to enter these buildings. Police will give $225 tickets for trespassing if people enter schools, Welter says, but have otherwise told him they don't mind him going into other buildings.

On a recent weekday morning, he brought a visitor to one of his favorite spots, St. Agnes Catholic Church, a rotting structure where graffiti vandals have made their mark. A beam of sunlight shone through the windows, falling on the one remaining pew in the church, a haunting image that illuminated the church's destruction. Then Welter heard a motor idling outside and quickly ushered his guest toward the exit.

"Someone's pulling up out there; let's start walking this way," he said, moving toward the crumbling staircase that leads to the church's courtyard, which was littered with soda cans and food wrappers.

He's not afraid of the authorities — they're in short supply in this cash-strapped city — but of scavengers, vagrants and others who might take advantage of someone with an expensive camera. That's why he usually begins his tours at 7 a.m., the best time to avoid other humans, he says.

Next, he headed into a girls' school attached to the church, climbing the stairs to a hall of classrooms where rubble was everywhere, as if a bomb had gone off. Some books and magazines dated to 1962 and told outdated stories of boys living on the prairie. A bird's nest sat in one of the large windows where a pane used to be.

Locals use a derogatory term, "ruin porn," to describe the phenomenon of people gawking at the decay. They want visitors to see the positive parts of Detroit, such as the vacant fields that enterprising farmers have turned into urban gardens. If tourists are going to look at the ruins, they should then volunteer in the community, many Detroiters say.

"The decay is not cool, not arty-farty," Jean Vortkamp, a community activist and onetime mayoral candidate, said in an email. "I see the lady with bags and three layers of clothes on, and then I see a group of white young people climb out of their dad's cars with cameras that are worth so much."

Some Detroiters, including a group of urban explorers, have a beef with Welter in particular. They scrawled a message on the walls of the St. Agnes Church, "Go Home Jesse … We HATE you and your tour bus."

Welter says he's opening visitors' eyes to the problems of Detroit, which could potentially drum up political will to help the city.

"People are going to do this anyway. Why not do it in a way that's going to be safer, easier for everyone?" he said.

Jason Schlosberg went on a tour with Welter when he was visiting Detroit on a business trip. Schlosberg, a lawyer and photographer from Washington, D.C., said he had long looked forward to exploring the "mecca" of run-down buildings that is Detroit.

But his experience touring crumbling ballrooms and onetime high-end residences caused him to think long and hard about what lessons Detroit can teach the rest of the country.

"It makes you question your mortality as a species. We try to make our mark on the planet by building these concrete and brick structures, but Rome obviously fell," he said. "What is Manhattan going to look like in 300 years? Is it still going to be a bustling metropolis?"

Whether Detroit will seek to capitalize on the tourists, or stop them, is unclear. The office of Kevyn Orr, the state-appointed emergency manager of the city, declined to comment for this story. Another city full of ruins, Gary, Ind., has taken advantage of the photographers flocking to its abandoned buildings. It charges $50 for a photography permit.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-detroit-ruin-tours-20131226,0,7211471,full.story#axzz2odN9hpOb
 
Detroit Gets $350 Million Pension Aid Offer From Snyder

Detroit Gets $350 Million Pension Aid Offer From Snyder
By Chris Christoff
Jan 22, 2014 11:00 PM CT

Michigan would pay $350 million over 20 years to reduce bankrupt Detroit’s pension liabilities under a deal struck by Governor Rick Snyder and lawmakers.

The money would be in addition to $330 million that nine foundations pledged through bankruptcy-court mediation to reduce city pension cuts and to shield Detroit’s art collection from a sale to pay $11.5 billion in unsecured debt. The money should be linked to a broader settlement that would protect the masterworks, Snyder said yesterday at news briefing in Lansing.

Snyder, a Republican, also called for independent management of Detroit’s retirement system, which is run by two appointed boards. He declined to say how that might occur, though he said it wouldn’t necessarily be through state control.

“This is a settlement; this is not a bailout,” said Snyder, who was joined at the news briefing by Michigan House Speaker Jase Bolger and state Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville, both Republicans. Snyder said the state money would ease cuts to pensions under a restructuring of Detroit’s debt.

Detroit filed for bankruptcy in July, claiming $11.5 billion in unsecured debt that it can’t pay and maintain basic services for Michigan’s largest city of about 700,000 residents. Creditors have pressured Detroit Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr to sell some of the city’s art collection, among other assets, to settle debt.

Working Together

The judge in the case yesterday denied a creditor’s request for a role in the valuation of the collection. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes said he can’t force the city to include creditors in decisions about the art.

Snyder said cooperation will lead to a better outcome for the city and the state.

“If we can participate in something to settle more effectively, faster and better, that’s a tremendous advantage for all of Michigan,” he said.

The plan would need approval from the Republican-controlled legislature, which has been reluctant to consider aid to largely Democratic Detroit. The $350 million may come out of about $250 million Michigan receives annually under a 1998 court settlement to compensate states for the cost of illnesses caused by smoking.

One option is to issue a bond and use the tobacco settlement to pay it off, Snyder said.

The fund, which also is used for other programs, has $76.6 million available this fiscal year and a projected $53.2 million next year, according to the Michigan House Fiscal Agency.

Economic Recovery

Bolger said allowing Detroit’s bankruptcy to drag out would harm the state’s economic recovery.

“This offer is right for the full state of Michigan, as well as the citizens and pensioners of Detroit,” Bolger said.

Bolger and Richardville said lawmakers want assurances that the state money would produce lasting financial relief with proper oversight.

Republican Roger Kahn, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, said he was skeptical whether such a plan would be accepted by creditors or the bankruptcy court.

“It’s hard for me to get enthusiastic about using state money that could be used, for example, for roads,” he said.

Orr, the state-appointed emergency manager, has said the combined debt of Detroit’s two retirement systems is as much as $3.5 billion. Pension officials have said the figure is inflated.

Snyder said if a combined $700 million from the state and private foundations goes toward reducing pension liabilities, “it’s very important there be professional management of those resources.”

Those comments drew objections from state Representative David Nathan, a Detroit Democrat who said the retirement systems rely on professional financial managers for investments.

“To suggest there are no professionals down in Detroit handling the pension system is ludicrous,” Nathan said in an interview. “The board has people that advise them.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...0-million-pension-aid-deal-from-state-1-.html
 
Re: Detroit Gets $350 Million Pension Aid Offer From Snyder

“This is a settlement; this is not a bailout,” said Snyder, who was joined at the news briefing by Michigan House Speaker Jase Bolger and state Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville, both Republicans. Snyder said the state money would ease cuts to pensions under a restructuring of Detroit’s debt.



A bailout by another name? - who cares. Hope it helps Detroit (city and pensioners).
 
Police chief encourages armed homeowners to fight back: 'You’re not going to have tim

Police chief encourages armed homeowners to fight back: 'You’re not going to have time to dial 911'
By Charlene Sakoda | Odd News
Tue, Mar 11, 2014

In Detroit, Michigan several incidences of armed homeowner involved shootings have been reported in recent weeks. According to WDIV Local 4, at least four cases have occurred where homeowners using guns to defend themselves, shot, and twice killed intruders or carjackers.

Detroit Police Chief James Craig told WDIV, “Lot of good Detroiters are fed up.” According to Deadline Detroit and The Detroit News , in an unusual declaration for a big city police chief, in January Craig stated that he thinks that if more Detroiters were legally armed, it would deter criminals. With the latest string of shootings, Craig talked to the station and reiterated his stance. “The message should be that, you know, people are going to protect themselves. They’re tired, they’ve been dealing with this epidemic of violence, they’re afraid and they have a right to protect themselves.”

Reports indicate that Chief Craig’s position on the issue of an armed citizenry changed after he served as the police chief of Portland, Maine in 2009. Craig served with the Los Angeles Police Department for 28 years where he said, “…it takes an act of Congress to get a concealed weapon permit.” Once in Portland, Craig found himself denying a “stack” of Carrying Concealed Weapon (CCW) permits in a state where many CCWs are handed out. But he says, “I changed my orientation real quick. Maine is one of the safest places in America. Clearly, suspects knew that good Americans were armed.”

Chief Craig told WDIV, “If you are confronted with an immediate threat to your safety, you’re not going to have time to dial 911, you know. I mean, so it becomes an issue of, the threat’s here, I have to respond to the threat.” Though he does make it known that the threat needs to be coming at a homeowner and armed citizens cannot chase a suspect down with a gun. In those cases, 911 needs to be called upon.

The chief said that the Detroit Police Department will continue to aggressively search and arrest suspects involved in the recent cases. Craig added, “Suspects in Detroit gotta worry about a couple of things. They’ve got to worry about a police department that’s going to aggressively find you when you commit acts of violence. And you gotta also worry about the good Detroiters who are not going to put up with the violence.”

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews...oing-to-have-time-to-dial-911”-215231522.html
 
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