{--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--Miami 4 - Pacers 3--}

[BDR]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

60 in the paint. How many were layups? 60 don't matter. We talking about 4 to win the game.

That's right 60 in that paint against a supposed best defense in the league and the refs who made sure try tried to give the game to the pacers

 

[RoadRage]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Whats funny is that a lot of people believe that great shot blockers deter teams from driving in the paint, but in reality often the opposite is the case... Matter of fact the reason why they get a lot of blocks is because teams are always driving on them and even a blind squire finds a nut... Just look at the Lakers, for example, everyone knows how great of a shot blocker Howard is, but the way you beat the Lakers is by attacking the paint, and though he may get three blocks in that game, by far the majority of shots wont get blocked...
The best way of preventing teams from attacking the paint, are fast feet, because no matter what your hops are, well unless you Vince in his prime, you not jumping over no one...
So a defender who is able to slide over and stay in front of the driver >>>> one who tries to block every shot, and is slow with the feet....
If I was a team playing against Memphis, the Lakers, and Indiana I would make it a point to challenge the big men with the dribble penetration....

 

[Spectrum]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Whats funny is that a lot of people believe that great shot blockers deter teams from driving in the paint, but in reality often the opposite is the case...

No, it's not. The data is available so you don't have to guess. When Hibbert is in the game, the percentage of shots that occur outside of the paint jumps significantly (against all teams and also the heat). The stats are available. When Hibbert is on the floor, the Heat stay out of the paint.

 

[Fort Liquordale]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Anyone have a download link for game 1.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

No, it's not. The data is available so you don't have to guess. When Hibbert is in the game, the percentage of shots that occur outside of the paint jumps significantly (against all teams and also the heat). The stats are available. When Hibbert is on the floor, the Heat stay out of the paint.

not only that
the points in the paint are because of the passes to people after hibbert stopped the first person from scoring outright.

how many of those were dishes from various folks and rebounds off of misses since hibbert had to help?

people acting like they were going to the rim and dunking on hibbert

 

[curryshotta]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

The way I see it makes no sense trying to stay out of the paint against large frontlines.

You have to make those guys block or foul.

The alternative is shooting long twos and watching them snarf the rebounds

 

[fatsack1]

Anyone have a download link for game 1.

http://nbafile.com/nba-playoffs-2013-05-22-indiana-pacers-vs-miami-heat-ecf-g1/

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[curryshotta]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

not only that
the points in the paint are because of the passes to people after hibbert stopped the first person from scoring outright.

how many of those were dishes from various folks and rebounds off of misses since hibbert had to help?

people acting like they were going to the rim and dunking on hibbert

I dont even mind that.

The point is that he has to react. After he picks up the first one and I keep on coming back down there he has hard decisions to make.

I will always take my chances on his foot speed not being able to cover every foray into the paint

 

[Spectrum]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

The way I see it makes no sense trying to stay out of the paint against large frontlines.

You have to make those guys block or foul.

The alternative is shooting long twos and watching them snarf the rebounds

Agreed. But sometimes it's easier to pull up from 15 feet as opposed to trying to shoot over a 7 footer in the paint. Ask Melo.

 

[RoadRage]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

No, it's not. The data is available so you don't have to guess. When Hibbert is in the game, the percentage of shots that occur outside of the paint jumps significantly (against all teams and also the heat). The stats are available. When Hibbert is on the floor, the Heat stay out of the paint.

I said often not always, here's the catch, most teams in the NBA lack the people with proper skills to attack these players, and what teams are doing is packing the paint with not one but two and sometimes three big guys... In these instances you have to pull them out with outside jump shooters.. So not only do you must have the drivers but also outside help.. Once you have those two components then these pedestrian big guys become a liability on defense... This is the reason why the coach pulled Hibbert at the end of the game and chose to go with a faster mobile team.. The problem with the last play wasn't who was on the floor but their execution, and failing to collapse hard on James in the paint..

 

[Spectrum]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

The problem with the last play wasn't who was on the floor but their execution, and failing to collapse hard on James in the paint..

Yes it was. It's no coincidence that Lebron got two easy layups with Hibbert on the bench. The stats were even shown during the game. When Hibbert is on the floor, Lebron and the rest of the heat players tend to stay out of the paint. Even George said that one of the reasons he played so close was because of HABIT. He was used to Hibbert being behind him so players are less likely to drive in the first place. If Hibbert was on the court, Lebron most likely would not have even driven to the hole in the first place...much less had two easy UNCONTESTED layups. It was a stupid call by Vogel. You don't take intimidating shot blockers out of the game in THAT particular situation. If Bosh gets a jumpshot, so what. He makes it less than 50 percent of the time. Lebron makes that layup 100 percent of the time.

 

[curryshotta]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Agreed. But sometimes it's easier to pull up from 15 feet as opposed to trying to shoot over a 7 footer in the paint. Ask Melo.

I agree.

but NY offense was mostly iso's and three pointers. Well at least it was in that series.

Even the Felton-Chandler pick and roll disappeared

 

[Fort Liquordale]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

http://nbafile.com/nba-playoffs-2013-05-22-indiana-pacers-vs-miami-heat-ecf-g1/

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

I dont even mind that.

The point is that he has to react. After he picks up the first one and I keep on coming back down there he has hard decisions to make.

I will always take my chances on his foot speed not being able to cover every foray into the paint

it also depends on whether he gets the benefit of the doubt or not.

a lot of times last series he was outright fouling the knicks but they gave him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

I agree.

but NY offense was mostly iso's and three pointers. Well at least it was in that series.

Even the Felton-Chandler pick and roll disappeared

that's the coaching philosophy.

people want to say its melo.

it ain't melo its the last 2 coaches to be exact.

dantoni ran a ball dominant offense... his is just designed for the point guard to dominate the ball.

when lin came in, he was dominating the ball as well.

woody run's iso and shoot the 3.

 

[RoadRage]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Yes it was. It's no coincidence that Lebron got two easy layups with Hibbert on the bench. The stats were even shown during the game. When Hibbert is on the floor, Lebron and the rest of the heat players tend to stay out of the paint. Even George said that one of the reasons he played so close was because of HABIT. He was used to Hibbert being behind him so players are less likely to drive in the first place. If Hibbert was on the court, Lebron most likely would not have even driven to the hole in the first place...much less had two easy UNCONTESTED layups. It was a stupid call by Vogel. You don't take intimidating shot blockers out of the game in THAT particular situation. If Bosh gets a jumpshot, so what. He makes it less than 50 percent of the time. Lebron makes that layup 100 percent of the time.

If Hibbert was on the floor the would have rotated Bosh at the top of of the Key, or towards the weak side, and Hibbert would had to either rotate with him, or have someone switch up the problem when you start switching up like that, you open the flood gates for mismatches.. Again the play was not designed for George to be left on a island, and him jumping so hard, only made matters worse... With all the speed, they were supposed to be fast enough to collaps in the paint all around LeBron, and if George were to sag instead of jumping, LeBron would not have been able to go around him that easily..
As far as LeBron going to the paint twice late in the game, thats just how he plays, he usually conserve his energy and is more aggressive late in the game..

 

[Spectrum]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

As far as LeBron going to the paint twice late in the game, thats just how he plays, he usually conserve his energy and is more aggressive late in the game..

This is not a debate RR. The data clearly illustrates that the Heat avoid the paint (regardless of the time left in the game) when Hibbert is on the floor. We have YEARS of data that illustrates this. The Heat avoid the paint when Hibbert is on the floor. So you pick your poison. Would you rather a possible open jumpshot or a possible layup? The choice is simple. Vogel made the wrong choice TWICE. A more seasoned or great coach (jackson, pop, daily, etc) would not have made such a terrible choice.

You are just making up shit with "open the floor to mismatches". If that was the case, Indiana wouldnt have a +56 with Hibbert on the floor against the Heat. If Bosh would have gotten a clean look, you can live with that..especically considering he was having an off game offensively.

 

[wiZe]

not only that
the points in the paint are because of the passes to people after hibbert stopped the first person from scoring outright.

how many of those were dishes from various folks and rebounds off of misses since hibbert had to help?

people acting like they were going to the rim and dunking on hibbert

Exactly

 

[BDR]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

not only that
the points in the paint are because of the passes to people after hibbert stopped the first person from scoring outright.

how many of those were dishes from various folks and rebounds off of misses since hibbert had to help?

people acting like they were going to the rim and dunking on hibbert

60 PTs in the paint how do you explain that with hibbert in the majority of the game?

 

[max-dawg]

Man stop smoking sherm

You talking about the Lebron that took the bum ass cavs to the finals?

Aye bruh the Miami Lebron is light years better than the Cavs Lebron

Coach pop or any coach for that matter can't game plan for this Lebron

Niggas weren't lying last year she. They said he finally figured it out.

fuck the Cavs.

when LeBron has the ball & is trying to score...you defend him the same way = clog the lane!

iow, fuck his teammates...make him or one of the teammates beat you with a jumper - Never with a layup. never.never.never!

btw, if anyone can design a defense to shut down a superstar, it's coach pop. the spurs have the best coach to stop Miami; the grizz have the best players (best matchups) to stop Miami.

from Max's Samsung G-Note

 

[wiZe]

{--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

I said often not always, here's the catch, most teams in the NBA lack the people with proper skills to attack these players, and what teams are doing is packing the paint with not one but two and sometimes three big guys... In these instances you have to pull them out with outside jump shooters.. So not only do you must have the drivers but also outside help.. Once you have those two components then these pedestrian big guys become a liability on defense... This is the reason why the coach pulled Hibbert at the end of the game and chose to go with a faster mobile team.. The problem with the last play wasn't who was on the floor but their execution, and failing to collapse hard on James in the paint..

With 2 seconds on the clock, let Lebron do all the driving and dishing he wants. I doubt he could have caught the ball, passed it, then someone put up a shot in 2 seconds so Vogel's theory about Bron dishing it was and is retarded.

 

[BDR]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

So when are you niggas going to give bron his dap for being clutch?

You clowns been calling him a choke artist all of the 2010/2011 season

Now y'all acting it was vogal who lost the game instead of talking about how George thought shit was sweet after the refs help his ass to 3 free throws lmao

Bron took that nigga soul in that last play

He sitting there listening to you niggas and Jordan that bron can't go left so what Paul do play bron right hand what a dumb ass

Bron gave Jordan more stfu sauce

Niggas gonna lean tho

 

[curryshotta]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

fuck the Cavs.

when LeBron has the ball & is trying to score...you defend him the same way = clog the lane!

iow, fuck his teammates...make him or one of the teammates beat you with a jumper - Never with a layup. never.never.never!

btw, if anyone can design a defense to shut down a superstar, it's coach pop. the spurs have the best coach to stop Miami; the grizz have the best players (best matchups) to stop Miami.

from Max's Samsung G-Note

wait hold up

you think that clogging the lane is a new tactic.....or something that teams dont take into consideration ?

Offenses are built to try and create spacing.



By the way that stopping the superstar didnt work when OKC backdoor swept the spurs last year.

Why didnt he use some of that pixie dust last year?

 

[wiZe]

Bron was clutch but Vogel made an idiotic decision...twice.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

60 PTs in the paint how do you explain that with hibbert in the majority of the game?

did you not just read where i said the points came from dishes and passes and put backs after hibbert had stopped the first person from scoring an easy layup

 

[BDR]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

fuck the Cavs.

when LeBron has the ball & is trying to score...you defend him the same way = clog the lane!

iow, fuck his teammates...make him or one of the teammates beat you with a jumper - Never with a layup. never.never.never!

btw, if anyone can design a defense to shut down a superstar, it's coach pop. the spurs have the best coach to stop Miami; the grizz have the best players (best matchups) to stop Miami.

from Max's Samsung G-Note

Right spurs couldnt handle OKC either lmao

 

[curryshotta]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Here is an article worth reading on that last play

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/...-lebron-james-paul-george-heat-vs-pacers-2013

 

[wiZe]

With 2 seconds on the clock, let Lebron do all the driving and dishing he wants. I doubt he could have caught the ball, passed it, then someone put up a shot in 2 seconds so Vogel's theory about Bron dishing it was and is retarded.

And Charles Barkley is retarded for co-signing such foolishness.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

wait hold up

you think that clogging the lane is a new tactic.....or something that teams dont take into consideration ?

Offenses are built to try and create spacing.



By the way that stopping the superstar didnt work when OKC backdoor swept the spurs last year.

Why didnt he use some of that pixie dust last year?

if jackson was a better coach than he is now the warriors would have beat the spurs.

also the pacers did the smart thing which was funnel to the lane and let the bigs handle the drivers.

they didn't leave the shooters late in the game, so them wide open 3's the heat are accustomed to weren't there.

this is also why hibbert would have been crucial.

if you're going to play straight up and not sag off why not have the shot blocker in the game to deter in the event someone gets beat?

ultimately this is on george though. he overplayed knowing he didn't have the help he usually has and created a lane for lebron to get to.

you let lebron catch it and keep him in front of you with 2 seconds left.

any shot other than a layup is a better shot to force him to take and make.

he more than likely would have made it but you can live with that.

 

[BDR]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

did you not just read where i said the points came from dishes and passes and put backs after hibbert had stopped the first person from scoring an easy layup

Is that the point to keep hibbert on his heels?

Fact is heat attacked the paint but the refs weren't giving them the calls so they adjusted and kept attacking but had a trailing man for the open dish

 

[sinsay]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

fuck the Cavs.

when LeBron has the ball & is trying to score...you defend him the same way = clog the lane!

iow, fuck his teammates...make him or one of the teammates beat you with a jumper - Never with a layup. never.never.never!

btw, if anyone can design a defense to shut down a superstar, it's coach pop. the spurs have the best coach to stop Miami; the grizz have the best players (best matchups) to stop Miami.

from Max's Samsung G-Note

Pop and the Spurs haven't shut down a superstar in 6 years.

This isn't the 2007 Spurs playing the 2007 Cavs.

The Spurs of the last 3 years are nowhere near as good defensively...whether its players or coaching. The last 3 or 4 Spurs teams win offensively by outscoring teams.

And Lebron's second best player isn't Larry Hughes.

I have all the respect in the world for Pop fam, but good grief, this is a totally different Spurs team that plays totally different than those Spurs teams you keep wanting to reference.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}



Beatdownrecs gonna be flaming y'all niggas for 3 more years

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Here is an article worth reading on that last play

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/...-lebron-james-paul-george-heat-vs-pacers-2013

i read it

however

if you look at the play.
we assume hibbert would be on bosh. bosh was at the top of the key.

they ran their motions. bosh ended up in the paint. tyler and lance switched however if hibbert was in the game there would be no switch.

allen didn't even run a screen he just ran through.

lance ended up right outside the key right where the play happened.

stevenson sagged off of bosh and then tried to get over there but he couldn't

lebron caught the ball from the top of they key right at the 3 point line.

george just grossly overplayed it.

the argument that it was a hell of a play is bullshit.

im sorry.

nobody set a screen

nobody even did anything to get lebron free. he literally just stood there. then ran to the top and then ran to the rim. george didn't get any type of interference ran on him in fact no heat or pacer player even got into their area. lebron literally stood there let everyone run around and then ran to the stop for the ball..

if george doesn't chase him down like he was supposed to tackle him. and just let's him run out and catch the ball. the drive is a thousand times more difficult and likely not even going to happen considering there is a defender right there in front of him.

an amazing play?

the shot and result were clutch...

but looking at the tape? does not support the articles claims

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Re: {--Miami Heat vs Indiana Pacers - East Conf. Finals 2013--}

Is that the point to keep hibbert on his heels?

Fact is heat attacked the paint but the refs weren't giving them the calls so they adjusted and kept attacking but had a trailing man for the open dish

you keep confusing the points.

the points in the paint were as a result of the defense of indy not rotating to help the helper.

scoring off the dish and put back after the first attempt is stopped is different than just going down there and posting up and dunking on folk.

and the last play would have been handled differently. it was bosh's man that went over to help...

with 2 seconds left it wouldn't have been enough time for lebron to pass the ball to bosh if hibbert came over to help.

 

[wiZe]

Beatdownrecs gonna be flaming y'all niggas for 3 more years

I will go Nancy Kerrigan some ninjas before I let that happen.