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TV Debate: John Oliver Eviscerates Law & Order Franchise, Accuses Dick Wolf of Peddling 'Fantasy' of Law Enforcement

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John Oliver Eviscerates Law & Order Franchise, Accuses Dick Wolf of Peddling 'Fantasy' of Law Enforcement
By Rebecca Iannucci / September 12 2022, 6:44 AM PDT


Just days before NBC’s trio of Law & Order series returns with new episodes, John Oliver had some choice words for the franchise, and its overlord Dick Wolf, on Sunday’s Last Week Tonight.
In the episode’s main segment (embedded above), Oliver took a deep dive into how cop shows “significantly distort the big picture of policing,” whether that means giving real-life police departments behind-the-scenes input on how they’re presented, or crafting a “false narrative of law enforcement” in which “exceptionally competent cops [are] working within a largely fair framework that mostly convicts white people.”
“It’s presenting a world where the cops can always figure out who did it, defense attorneys are irritating obstacles to be overcome, and even if a cop roughs up a suspect, it’s all in pursuit of a just outcome,” Oliver noted of Law & Order specifically. “And it blasts that fantasy at you in endless reruns and marathons in the guise of very well-produced, extremely entertaining TV. But underneath it all, it is a commercial — a commercial produced by a man who is, in his own words, unabashedly pro-law enforcement.”


Throughout the piece, Oliver emphasized how instrumental Wolf is to the Law & Order franchise’s generally positive depiction of police, even cuing up a 2003 interview in which Wolf called the Law & Order shows “the best recruiting poster that you could have for being a New York City cop.” (In a separate interview, former SVU showrunner Warren Leight also admitted that it’s simply “not part of Dick’s brand” to show “cops behaving illegally” on any of his series.)
“It’s completely fine to enjoy [Law & Order shows], and it’s completely understandable to want Olivia Benson to exist,” Oliver continued. “But it’s important to remember just how far it is from representing anything resembling reality… [Wolf] is selling a complete fantasy that many people in this country are only too happy to buy — which is fine, as long as we don’t lose sight of the fact that it’s an ad for a defective product.”
Reps for NBC and Wolf declined comment
 
playahaitian said:
Sadly something I know YOU know well

Most people aren't like you

They are impressionable and programmable as f*ck.

And no matter how smart you are

Certain images shown since birth constantly even just as static in the background

Leave some type of imprint.
Click to expand...
Oh I get it. I'm just at the point in life where, if I want to shut my brain off for four hours watching a marathon of L&O episodes, fuck it. I'm not thinking too deep.

It's all entertainment to me. Some folks are programmed by it. I'm just killing time and enjoying the stories, as outlandish as they can be.
 
All I know in season 2... They hiding that ass...

organized-crime-107-bell-jett-stabler-450x289.jpg
 
EPDC said:
Oh I get it. I'm just at the point in life where, if I want to shut my brain off for four hours watching a marathon of L&O episodes, fuck it. I'm not thinking too deep.

It's all entertainment to me. Some folks are programmed by it. I'm just killing time and enjoying the stories, as outlandish as they can be.
Click to expand...

Same here exactly bro
 
woodchuck said:
Eh, it's just TV to me. As a person that had to take law courses in college, I know that what they show, is not how it actually works. Shows like this and Blue Bloods are copganda shows.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, one of the many things I liked about the show "How to get Away with Murder," (Viola Davis) was that she had her students actually work on cases and sit in courtrooms.
I will tell you this, in the beginning of John Oliver's segment on "Law & Order" Detective Benson mentioned that the wife of the victim had been sodomized by the preperator with a banana. Sounds wild, well trust and believe there are some crazy stories that arise that you don't hear about on the news.
 
playahaitian said:
Like I keep saying

You'll gotta stop thinking you the average

you are not the people or group they targeting with this.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but they ain't exactly without their missteps either.



TRAIL OF N.Y. SOCIALITE'S TORMENTOR LED TRAGICALLY CLOSE TO HOME



By Laurie Goodstein
November 15, 1992

NEW YORK -- Lewd letters began arriving last April at the Park Avenue apartment of socialite Joy A. Silverman. All were anonymous, signed with a distinctive illegible scrawl. A raunchy greeting card addressed to Silverman's 14-year-old daughter, Jessica, contained a packaged condom.
Soon Silverman received letters threatening blackmail, and visits from a mysterious stranger with a Texan drawl. Later, a caller threatened to kidnap Jessica if he wasn't paid $20,000. "I'm a sick and desperate man," he said.
Silverman, whose work as a top Republican fund-raiser and donor led to President Bush's nomination of her to be ambassador to Barbados, grew alarmed and took her strange case directly to FBI Director William S. Sessions.

Never did she suspect, law enforcement sources and friends said, that Sol Wachtler -- New York state's highest ranking and highly respected judge -- could be the perpetrator. If she had, sources said, she never would have launched the investigation that ended in Wachtler's ignoble arrest last weekend on the Long Island Expressway, followed by his resignation from his post as chief judge of the New York Court of Appeals, leaving his reputation in ruins.
After all, Silverman knew Wachtler well. Their families and financial affairs intertwined. They shared political and social friends and for years they shared an intimate relationship.
But if this case contains any lesson, it is that knowing someone well is not the same as knowing everything.

Many people knew, loved and respected Wachtler. He appeared to be the quintessential family man, married for nearly 41 years and the father of four. Friends and co-workers describe the 62-year-old jurist as charming and magnetic, with a self-effacing humor. He made a point of being courteous to everyone, including courthouse clerks and cleaning staff.
As a young liberal Republican, Wachtler joined the town board of North Hempstead, Long Island, at age 33, and won the post of supervisor at 35. He lost the 1967 election for Nassau County executive, but rebounded when then-Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller appointed him to the Supreme Court, New York's trial court.
In 1972, Wachtler won election to the state's highest court, the Court of Appeals. After 13 years on the bench, he was appointed chief judge by his friend Gov. Mario M. Cuomo (D). It was a promotion that put Wachtler in command of the state court system with its nearly $1 billion budget and 3,400 judges.

Wachtler earned a reputation as a defender of civil liberties and a believer in public access to the judicial system. He pushed to unseal court records in civil lawsuits and to allow television cameras in state courtrooms. He was known for lucid thinking, clearly written legal opinions and for seeking consensus among the seven Court of Appeals judges.
"He had the instincts for . . . bringing people together and persuasion that a genuinely good politician has," said Matthew T. Crosson, chief administrator of the New York state courts. "He's the kind of person who always left you feeling good. He has the best sense of humor of anybody I've ever known."
With his quick wit, erudite manner and the timing of a great stand-up comic, Wachtler was frequently invited to speak at public events, and often accepted. In private, he joked with friends that he might run for governor or be appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and they took him seriously.

"He had the capacity to do whatever he chose to do," Crosson said. "There were so many people who respected him."
When Joy Silverman first met Wachtler, she was a teenager. He is 17 years her senior. Their link was through Wachtler's in-laws, the Wolosoff family. Wachtler's wife's uncle was Alvin Bibbs Wolosoff, a wealthy and ambitious real estate developer. Silverman was Wolosoff's stepdaughter.
Two years before he died, Wolosoff asked Wachtler to serve as executor of his $24.8 million estate, according to Nassau County court documents. When Wolosoff died in 1984, Wachtler and Silverman found themselves working together as trustees of several Wolosoff estate funds.

Silverman, 45, has been married three times. She is separated from her third husband, Jeffrey S. Silverman, chairman of Ply-Gem Industries Inc., a home-improvement products manufacturer, No. 485 in the most recent Fortune 500. Together the two donated more than $300,000 to the Republican Party in the 1988 election cycle, entitling them to membership in the "Team 100" of leading donors and access to high-ranking Republicans at special meetings and events.
Until Joy Silverman surfaced this week as the target of Wachtler's alleged threats, she was best known as the only ambassadorial nominee among the first group of her "Team 100" colleagues who was not confirmed by the Senate. Sen. Paul S. Sarbanes (D-Md.) had argued that Silverman had "no other accomplishments than this political fund-raising."
In the FBI complaint detailing the charges against Wachtler, Silverman is identified only as "J.S." But within days of Wachtler's arrest, a flattering photograph of the socialite with chin slightly uplifted appeared on New York tabloid covers. One headline said: "Wachtler's Obsession."

Silverman told the FBI that for several years she and Wachtler maintained an intimate relationship that ended about a year ago. Wachtler had phoned several times, she said, angry that she was dating other men, and especially incensed about David Samson, a New Jersey attorney and also a Republican Party donor.
However, Wachtler was not a suspect when Silverman went to the FBI with a batch of menacing letters postmarked from New Jersey, law enforcement sources said. The writer attested to having "embarrassing" pictures and tapes of Silverman and Samson "for sale," dug up at the writer's request by private investigator "David Purdy."
In August, a man visited Samson's Manhattan apartment building and, in a Texan drawl, told the doorman that David Purdy had stopped by. Later in the month, someone claiming to be Purdy stopped by Silverman's building and delivered a typed letter saying, "it will cost you to get me out of your life."

A letter left on Sept. 12 demanded that Silverman place an ad in the New York Times listing a telephone number to be used for establishing contact. The ad began appearing on Oct. 1. It said: "LOST Texas Bulldog. Answers to name David. Please call."
What the letter-writer did not know is that by this time, the FBI was orchestrating Silverman's every move in the case. The telephone line was wired into her apartment and every call would be tapped and traced by a team of FBI agents.
The first break came Oct. 3. A call to the contact number was traced by the FBI to a mobile telephone number that records showed was used by Judge Wachtler.
The discovery seemed so absurd, law enforcement officials said, they suspected that Wachtler was being set up by the real culprit.

"No one would certainly have imagined before this unfolded that he would be accused" of such acts, said the U.S. attorney for New Jersey, Michael Chertoff, who helped command the final investigation.
More threatening calls came, in quick succession: Oct. 4 and 5 from pay telephones in towns near Wachtler's home in Manhasset; Oct. 7, from a pay telephone at Long Island Jewish Hospital, where Wachtler was undergoing outpatient treatment for a serious medical condition, Silverman told the FBI; Oct. 9 from a pay telephone at Harrah's Casino and Hotel in Reno, Nev., where Wachtler was attending a conference; and Oct. 27, from a private club to which Wachtler belonged.
Using a mechanical device to disguise his voice, the caller demanded $20,000 in exchange for the compromising pictures and tapes. He threatened to kidnap Silverman's daughter if he was not paid.
All clues pointed to Wachtler, and yet, said one law enforcement official, "we didn't close doors" until Oct. 28. Sounding frantic, the caller said, "If you {expletive} up me at all, I promise it will cost you $200,000 to get your daughter back."
The call came from a pay telephone in Roslyn, Long Island. About two hours later, FBI agents lifted a fingerprint from the telephone handset. It matched Wachtler's.
"That was the point of no return," one official said.
The caller arranged with Silverman to pick up the blackmail money on Nov. 7. Wachtler drove into Manhattan that day in his state-issued sedan, dressed in a dark suit as if on his way to court.
As agents watched, he paid a cabbie to deliver an envelope to Silverman's apartment. He phoned a hair salon just around the corner from the apartment and asked a stylist there to retrieve an envelope from the stairwell next door -- the specified site. The envelope contained the $20,000 in cash.
Wachtler never picked up the money. He drove east, away from the city, on the Long Island Expressway, tailed by agents, stopping several times to tear up papers that were later retrieved, reassembled and added to the evidence in the case. When agents finally pounced as he crossed into Queens, they searched Wachtler's car and found a mechanical device used for voice distortion.
Wachtler is charged with one count of "conspiracy to mail threatening communications" and faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison and $250,000 fine. Since Tuesday, when he resigned his $120,000-a-year judgeship, he has been detained in his luxury condominium, with an electronic monitoring bracelet around his ankle and private security guards at his gates.
Wachtler has retained Charles A. Stillman, an attorney known for successfully negotiating plea bargains for high-profile clients.
Unless there is a trial, chances are there will be no knowing what might have caused, as prosecutors allege, a distinguished jurist to turn obsessive criminal. There is speculation Wachtler was taking medication or suffered stress because of serious health problems -- perhaps cancer -- but family members have denied that. On the nightly news, sound-bite psychiatrists have offered up theories about paranoia, schizophrenia and erotomania.
Joy and Jessica Silverman are hidden so well that even close friends do not know where to find them. Prosecutors say the law requires them to consult with Silverman about any potential plea bargain.
The question is whether the socialite will want to see New York's former chief judge -- the man she knew so well -- go on trial.


 
Last edited:
November 17 said:
Perhaps, but they ain't exactly without their missteps either.



TRAIL OF N.Y. SOCIALITE'S TORMENTOR LED TRAGICALLY CLOSE TO HOME



By Laurie Goodstein
November 15, 1992

NEW YORK -- Lewd letters began arriving last April at the Park Avenue apartment of socialite Joy A. Silverman. All were anonymous, signed with a distinctive illegible scrawl. A raunchy greeting card addressed to Silverman's 14-year-old daughter, Jessica, contained a packaged condom.
Soon Silverman received letters threatening blackmail, and visits from a mysterious stranger with a Texan drawl. Later, a caller threatened to kidnap Jessica if he wasn't paid $20,000. "I'm a sick and desperate man," he said.
Silverman, whose work as a top Republican fund-raiser and donor led to President Bush's nomination of her to be ambassador to Barbados, grew alarmed and took her strange case directly to FBI Director William S. Sessions.

Never did she suspect, law enforcement sources and friends said, that Sol Wachtler -- New York state's highest ranking and highly respected judge -- could be the perpetrator. If she had, sources said, she never would have launched the investigation that ended in Wachtler's ignoble arrest last weekend on the Long Island Expressway, followed by his resignation from his post as chief judge of the New York Court of Appeals, leaving his reputation in ruins.
After all, Silverman knew Wachtler well. Their families and financial affairs intertwined. They shared political and social friends and for years they shared an intimate relationship.
But if this case contains any lesson, it is that knowing someone well is not the same as knowing everything.

Many people knew, loved and respected Wachtler. He appeared to be the quintessential family man, married for nearly 41 years and the father of four. Friends and co-workers describe the 62-year-old jurist as charming and magnetic, with a self-effacing humor. He made a point of being courteous to everyone, including courthouse clerks and cleaning staff.
As a young liberal Republican, Wachtler joined the town board of North Hempstead, Long Island, at age 33, and won the post of supervisor at 35. He lost the 1967 election for Nassau County executive, but rebounded when then-Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller appointed him to the Supreme Court, New York's trial court.
In 1972, Wachtler won election to the state's highest court, the Court of Appeals. After 13 years on the bench, he was appointed chief judge by his friend Gov. Mario M. Cuomo (D). It was a promotion that put Wachtler in command of the state court system with its nearly $1 billion budget and 3,400 judges.

Wachtler earned a reputation as a defender of civil liberties and a believer in public access to the judicial system. He pushed to unseal court records in civil lawsuits and to allow television cameras in state courtrooms. He was known for lucid thinking, clearly written legal opinions and for seeking consensus among the seven Court of Appeals judges.
"He had the instincts for . . . bringing people together and persuasion that a genuinely good politician has," said Matthew T. Crosson, chief administrator of the New York state courts. "He's the kind of person who always left you feeling good. He has the best sense of humor of anybody I've ever known."
With his quick wit, erudite manner and the timing of a great stand-up comic, Wachtler was frequently invited to speak at public events, and often accepted. In private, he joked with friends that he might run for governor or be appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and they took him seriously.

"He had the capacity to do whatever he chose to do," Crosson said. "There were so many people who respected him."
When Joy Silverman first met Wachtler, she was a teenager. He is 17 years her senior. Their link was through Wachtler's in-laws, the Wolosoff family. Wachtler's wife's uncle was Alvin Bibbs Wolosoff, a wealthy and ambitious real estate developer. Silverman was Wolosoff's stepdaughter.
Two years before he died, Wolosoff asked Wachtler to serve as executor of his $24.8 million estate, according to Nassau County court documents. When Wolosoff died in 1984, Wachtler and Silverman found themselves working together as trustees of several Wolosoff estate funds.

Silverman, 45, has been married three times. She is separated from her third husband, Jeffrey S. Silverman, chairman of Ply-Gem Industries Inc., a home-improvement products manufacturer, No. 485 in the most recent Fortune 500. Together the two donated more than $300,000 to the Republican Party in the 1988 election cycle, entitling them to membership in the "Team 100" of leading donors and access to high-ranking Republicans at special meetings and events.
Until Joy Silverman surfaced this week as the target of Wachtler's alleged threats, she was best known as the only ambassadorial nominee among the first group of her "Team 100" colleagues who was not confirmed by the Senate. Sen. Paul S. Sarbanes (D-Md.) had argued that Silverman had "no other accomplishments than this political fund-raising."
In the FBI complaint detailing the charges against Wachtler, Silverman is identified only as "J.S." But within days of Wachtler's arrest, a flattering photograph of the socialite with chin slightly uplifted appeared on New York tabloid covers. One headline said: "Wachtler's Obsession."

Silverman told the FBI that for several years she and Wachtler maintained an intimate relationship that ended about a year ago. Wachtler had phoned several times, she said, angry that she was dating other men, and especially incensed about David Samson, a New Jersey attorney and also a Republican Party donor.
However, Wachtler was not a suspect when Silverman went to the FBI with a batch of menacing letters postmarked from New Jersey, law enforcement sources said. The writer attested to having "embarrassing" pictures and tapes of Silverman and Samson "for sale," dug up at the writer's request by private investigator "David Purdy."
In August, a man visited Samson's Manhattan apartment building and, in a Texan drawl, told the doorman that David Purdy had stopped by. Later in the month, someone claiming to be Purdy stopped by Silverman's building and delivered a typed letter saying, "it will cost you to get me out of your life."

A letter left on Sept. 12 demanded that Silverman place an ad in the New York Times listing a telephone number to be used for establishing contact. The ad began appearing on Oct. 1. It said: "LOST Texas Bulldog. Answers to name David. Please call."
What the letter-writer did not know is that by this time, the FBI was orchestrating Silverman's every move in the case. The telephone line was wired into her apartment and every call would be tapped and traced by a team of FBI agents.
The first break came Oct. 3. A call to the contact number was traced by the FBI to a mobile telephone number that records showed was used by Judge Wachtler.
The discovery seemed so absurd, law enforcement officials said, they suspected that Wachtler was being set up by the real culprit.

"No one would certainly have imagined before this unfolded that he would be accused" of such acts, said the U.S. attorney for New Jersey, Michael Chertoff, who helped command the final investigation.
More threatening calls came, in quick succession: Oct. 4 and 5 from pay telephones in towns near Wachtler's home in Manhasset; Oct. 7, from a pay telephone at Long Island Jewish Hospital, where Wachtler was undergoing outpatient treatment for a serious medical condition, Silverman told the FBI; Oct. 9 from a pay telephone at Harrah's Casino and Hotel in Reno, Nev., where Wachtler was attending a conference; and Oct. 27, from a private club to which Wachtler belonged.
Using a mechanical device to disguise his voice, the caller demanded $20,000 in exchange for the compromising pictures and tapes. He threatened to kidnap Silverman's daughter if he was not paid.
All clues pointed to Wachtler, and yet, said one law enforcement official, "we didn't close doors" until Oct. 28. Sounding frantic, the caller said, "If you {expletive} up me at all, I promise it will cost you $200,000 to get your daughter back."
The call came from a pay telephone in Roslyn, Long Island. About two hours later, FBI agents lifted a fingerprint from the telephone handset. It matched Wachtler's.
"That was the point of no return," one official said.
The caller arranged with Silverman to pick up the blackmail money on Nov. 7. Wachtler drove into Manhattan that day in his state-issued sedan, dressed in a dark suit as if on his way to court.
As agents watched, he paid a cabbie to deliver an envelope to Silverman's apartment. He phoned a hair salon just around the corner from the apartment and asked a stylist there to retrieve an envelope from the stairwell next door -- the specified site. The envelope contained the $20,000 in cash.
Wachtler never picked up the money. He drove east, away from the city, on the Long Island Expressway, tailed by agents, stopping several times to tear up papers that were later retrieved, reassembled and added to the evidence in the case. When agents finally pounced as he crossed into Queens, they searched Wachtler's car and found a mechanical device used for voice distortion.
Wachtler is charged with one count of "conspiracy to mail threatening communications" and faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison and $250,000 fine. Since Tuesday, when he resigned his $120,000-a-year judgeship, he has been detained in his luxury condominium, with an electronic monitoring bracelet around his ankle and private security guards at his gates.
Wachtler has retained Charles A. Stillman, an attorney known for successfully negotiating plea bargains for high-profile clients.
Unless there is a trial, chances are there will be no knowing what might have caused, as prosecutors allege, a distinguished jurist to turn obsessive criminal. There is speculation Wachtler was taking medication or suffered stress because of serious health problems -- perhaps cancer -- but family members have denied that. On the nightly news, sound-bite psychiatrists have offered up theories about paranoia, schizophrenia and erotomania.
Joy and Jessica Silverman are hidden so well that even close friends do not know where to find them. Prosecutors say the law requires them to consult with Silverman about any potential plea bargain.
The question is whether the socialite will want to see New York's former chief judge -- the man she knew so well -- go on trial.
Click to expand...

Bro trust me I been posted that producers writers etc on these shows have been caught being very bad people...

It's the normalizing of these so called anti heros especially white male leads as lovable horrible abusive racists cool AWARD WINNING CAREER DEFINING POP ICON characters whose nearly every transgression is excused and justified - that has been dangerous to public perception

from Vic , to Tony to Don to Stabler... it's a very long list

But the rule breaking cop and how INTERNAL AFFAIRS is the worse narrative

trust me has really effected public perception of law enforcement

Ask any criminal attorney how much CSI effected the jury outcomes of actual real life court cases.
 

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