No Al-Qaeda attacks on US soil since 9/11- why?

[Spectrum]

Your correct in that it wasn't only a CIA-ISI operation. Everybody was involved from all the western intelligence groups, the Saudis, Jordanians, Turks, Egyptians and a host of others all had a role including making side deals and all of the nasty things that go on in the intel biz using the enemy of my enemy is my friend rallying cry. The question is what was the nexus between the CIA and Osama Bin Laden and his now second in command Zawahiri(sp).If i'm correct Bin Laden and Zawahiri met in Afghanistan and thus began their collaboration. Which brings up the issue of whether the reports that the Muslim Brotherhood was a creation of Mossad, infiltrated by them or neither

First off. The Muslim Brotherhood was not ONE group under one control. It was a loosely organized cloak of disparate fundamentalism groups with members from all over the middle east with their own factions, leaders, sources of funding, etc. The meeting bed just happened to be Afghanistan for the Afghan war to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan. They all had different goals, political connections, and also had their own infighting over the fruits of the war.

The idea that Mossad was behind the Muslim Brotherhood is about as baseless as you can get.

I have read that the CIA had a direct connection to Bin Laden but his main relationship was with ISI and directly with Saudi money men that financed the Afghan Arabs.

Bid Laden didn't really establish a connection with ISI until 1989 when he sided with Hekmatyar..and by doing this he alienated his mentor Azzam.

There is NOTHING available that substantiates a relationship between the CIA and Bid Laden. Much less.anyone with any real understanding of the Muslim Brother heads and the tribal relationship of the area he resided with the Pashtun would not even remotely suggest such a relationship. Seriously. It would be as ridiculous as making a case that Smush Parker is the best gaurd to have played in the NBA....to a person who knows the league and the game, not only it is ridiculous...you know that the claimer could never produce data to support such a claim. It simply doesnt make sense for an endless amount of reasons.

After the Soviets left Afghanistan the U.S., by its own admission, and everyone else abandoned the cause which gave ISI free reign and hence the creation of the Taliban which as it's now known eventually took over and gave Bin Laden santuary and a base of operations.

This is true from everything I have read.

The only constants I'm seeing is Bin Laden, the ISI, Saudi financial backers, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Afghan Arabs which later became the foot soldiers, trainers and planners for Al Queda. what I'm not seeing yet is a continuing deep involvement of the CIA after the Soviets left. I'm not questioning tha there maybe sects inside U.S. intelligence that may have covertly had a hand in what happened after the soviets left, if so I have the following questions.

who are they?

who is giving them orders?

where is the money coming from to finance them?

Only thing I've heard is pure speculation because there is alot of unanswered questions concerning exactly who is pulling whoms chain?

Let me give you a breakdown of what happened after the Soviets official "left" Afghanistan. I won't give you a complete story because as you can imagine, it would take a damn book to fully explained what occured.


First off, despite the official withdrawal of the U.S.S.R. out of Afghanistan. The U.S., through the C.I.A., and the U.S.S.R. though the K.G.B. continued to fund opposing sides as to promote a "winner" as to help install a "friendly" post Afghan War government in Kabul.

The problem was though although the Soviets "left" they were still OPENLY funding Najibullah, who was a former secret police chief under Soviet rule in Afghanistan and still was heading a COMMUNIST government within Kabul. The reality is that although the soviets left, they were still in control in Kabul. MacWilliams and Gates (current CIA director BTW) that Najibullah was nothing but a puppet of Soviet military power and he would not stand in Kabul long if they continued to fund Afghan commanders like Massoud. The CIA wanted nothing less than full expulsion of the communists out of Kabul.

There also another problem. There was a great deal of anxiety within in the Afghan military and the cities civilian population about the prospect of a Pakistani-backed Islamic radical government coming into power, especially one lead by Hekmatyar. It really wasn't until this point that we even knew about islamic fundamentalism much less cared about. At that point, commanders in Afghanistan, included lesser knowns like Bin Laden, meant absolutely nothing to the CIA. They were no threat and provider nothing of importance to us. We just didnt see the fundamentalism threat growing. Even the small amount of the CIA that really even cared about the region only cared insomuch as fighting Communism.

But don't think of the CIA as a unilateral group with the same opinions, goals and resources. There were MANY rogue officials that went beyond protocol and also many factions with different directions.

For instance as much as you had McWilliams and Gates who focused on Kabul..you had John Whitehead and Morton Abramawitz who thought they were completely wrong and focused on opposing missions.

Also remember you had the State Department with its own much larger budget and there set of goals that often opposed the CIA.

Even after the April 14, 1988 Geneva Accords were signed to give formal terms to the Soviet Withdrawel, Gorbachev PUBLICLY admonished the U.S. for their continued support through the CIA to the mujahedin. Even Ronald Reagan personally told a television interview in 1988 that he didnt think it would be fair if the Soviets continued to provide military and economic aid to Najibullah while the U.S. was forced to stop helping the Afghan Rebels.

So again, much of this was not covert. Both countries admitted in the media they were still funding the battle even after the Afghan war had "officially" ended.

Many of the cables by McWilliams from the U.S. embassy to the State Department, the CIA, the National Security, and members of congress are in the public domain now. Many of the top officials HATED McWilliams because he put much of the CIA business "on the street" and was openly critical of the CIA policy in Afghanistan...he was especially critical of the ISI-CIA-Heymatyar-Arab issue.

Again, probably the best book that documents all of this is a book called:

Ghost Wars by Steve Coll

 

[BigUnc]

I'll take your post Soviet info as correct but it leaves out the most important info. Both the Soviet backed government and the U.S. backed warlords lost. The Taliban won!! The same ISI created and maintained group that sprung out of the Madrassas funded by Saudi Arabia. Again it was the Taliban that allowed Bin Laden to set up training camps and housing compounds. Not only that but a worldwide transportation system that allowed Jihadist to come there and partake in the training being offered. Who funded this?? It was wealthy Middle Easterners mostly Saudi's that did this. Remember Bin Laden had burned through his cash while in the Sudan and supposedly had been cut off from family funds. Where is the direct CIA involvement in this from a losers perspective?? Now if you want to go the rogue element route there is some smoke there. You are familiar with Bush I relationship with both the Saudi Royal family and Bin Ladens family going back to when Bush I was CIA Director back in the 70's and probably going back even farther. Strange that every time a young Bush II got in financial trouble it was Saudi's that bailed his ass out. Just go back to when Bush II tried his hand at being an oil tycoon. There is a myriad of other issues involved that haven't been touched on yet including oil dominance, keeping the U.S. Dollar the worldwide currency to trade oil with and some others. Which all in all kinda leads bac to bigirls thread about wealthy familys and the shit they up to

 

[Spectrum]

I'll take your post Soviet info as correct but it leaves out the most important info. Both the Soviet backed government and the U.S. backed warlords lost. The Taliban won!!

Not true. We funded some of the very Afghan rebels that eventually turned on us and teamed with the Taliban. So that statement is not entirely true. We essentially traded one enemy (the communist Soviets) for another (the Islamic Fundamentalist). We just didn't understand that we were getting played by the fundamentalists because we didnt understand the movement.However, we funded the winning faction. It's just that we didn't know that we were funding a future enemy. Even the Afghan rebels whom we most trusted Massoud, inherently were Anti-US. It was just that the communists Soviets were the biggest enemy at the moment.

. Who funded this?? It was wealthy Middle Easterners mostly Saudi's that did this. Remember Bin Laden had burned through his cash while in the Sudan and supposedly had been cut off from family funds.

This is not true. Bid Laden was from a family of construction. He had a construction operation in Afghanistan that built many of the transportation routes to ship munitions, troops, food, etc in the rough Afghanistan environment during the world. He was a continuous business man that ran profitable businesses thorough the middle east. Bid Laden did not "run out of funds". I do not know where you go that info. But it was not the case.

Where is the direct CIA involvement in this from a losers perspective?? Now if you want to go the rogue element route there is some smoke there. You are familiar with Bush I relationship with both the Saudi Royal family and Bin Ladens family going back to when Bush I was CIA Director back in the 70's and probably going back even farther. Strange that every time a young Bush II got in financial trouble it was Saudi's that bailed his ass out. Just go back to when Bush II tried his hand at being an oil tycoon.

This again is not fully correct and has no barring on Osama Bid Laden. The Saud Royal Family and the Bid Ladens were very Secular. VERY. SO much so that the Saud Royal family has always been under direct threat from Wahhabism and are still seen by Bid Laden and other fundamentalist as corrupt leaders who do not follow true Islam. They have always been criticized for being two faced..the fold to Wahhabisms and the greater fundamentalism community by enforcing strict laws on the public...but their family..which numbers 100s of self proclaimed princes of 1000s of family members... enjoy a very secular...very WESTERN lifestyle behind closed doors. If you do not know what Wahhabism is you need to look it up. When Osama Bid Laden became into direct confrontation with the Saud Royal Family, he was banished not only from Saudi Arabia but was admonished by his family who were direct benefactors of the Saudi Royal Family. Politically, ideologically, philosophically, etc.. the Saud Royal Family and the rest of the Bid Ladens were in DIRECT conflict with Osama Bin Laden and he considered them infidels. Couple that with the fact that Bid Laden was the son of a lowly comcubine of his Father who was married over 20 times had over 60 children...and Bid Laden's mom was not on the favorite's list...and the fact that Bid Laden's family was disconnected and spread all through the middle east and many had little contact with the others... Again...it is the difference between separating correlation and causation. On a surface level, you may get a oh my god...there is a connection. However, when you know the details, you know it is clearly a false lead and incomplete knowledge of those relationships can cause a person to draw wild erroneous conclusions..that may seem plausible when you only have surface level knowledge. However, when you know the more intimate details, you know that Bush's associate with the Carlyle Group has absolutely nothing to do with him being aware of one of the lowely 55 children of one one of the unfavorable 22 wives of one the ceos of one of the companies who was apart of the porfolio of hundreds of companies, partnerships, and stock under the Carlyle Groups branch of operations. That should put things more into perspective for you.

There is a myriad of other issues involved that haven't been touched on yet including oil dominance, keeping the U.S. Dollar the worldwide currency to trade oil with and some others. Which all in all kinda leads bac to bigirls thread about wealthy familys and the shit they up to

I've seen the Bohemian Grove thread. I covered that stuff back in the late 80s...but they only understand a minor portion of it based on some the claims that make. But it is a good thread.

but back to your oil comment..

I'm posting this in response the the Iraq-bin ladin connection article i read today...Really to make a point why that is irrelevent anyway. I think it is sad the people really don't understand why we ever went there in the first place. There are many important events that effect our everday lives that people just have little understanding of. Most people don't understand how the Patriot Act(s), HOmeland Security acts, etc effect our everyday lives and are a drastic invasion of privacy and UNCONSTITUTIONAL. They only got passed because of the Chaos of the 9/11 and the war on "Terrorism"...but i digress. I hope this stimulates some nice conversation.

...but I think people really need to understand what this was all about. . I've been to Iraq and seen this first hand and I wasn't on a military assisgnment. I speak Arabic and went with an Iraqi Chaldean delegation..met with Brehmer's administration, other senators that were there and the whole nine yards. I was there in October and November. If you have more interest about what I saw..ask questions because I saw some interesting things...like when they bombed Wolfiwitz's hotel. It was across the Babylon river ..across from their hotel.I stayed at the Babylon Hotel. I went to old fedayeen camps..even ate at Saddam's favorite restaurant where he would do under the table oil deals with the French government...seen some interesting things. I left right before it got really out of control with the car bombings, etc.

This war in iraq was effectively about Oil and its impeding effect on the world's economy.(peak oil...read www.peakoil.org to learn more. But not for the reasons that people would think.This isn't about greedy corporations. It is much more serious than that. It is about Oil and the Euro.Without getting into a dissertation about the alarming U.S. national debt(12 trillion), the growing budget deficit, our growing consumption of oil, and the world's twindling supply of oil reserves, and the fact that all oil trading is done with the U.S. dollar, I can still l make a point that should be easily understood.

The world's reserve currency is the U.S. dollar. The U.S. is bankrupt but because the world currency is the U.S dollar and we have the printing press with the federal reserves..we can essentially print money at will in our currency and float it in the market to buy goods like Oil. We can create "fiat money" out of thin air because the world's reserve currency is our currency and we have a monopoly on its production. The world is pretty much financing our country. With the shrinking oil supply( search for peak oil), the fact the Iraq went to the euro to take payments and other countries were considering it( it would DEMOLISH our country)..If they convinced opec and other countries, which was happening, to go to the euro, our u.s. dollar is no longer the worlds reserve currency, the dollar would disastrously plummet as people would convert their U.S.dollars to Euros and convert their securities as well to Euro based securities..and because we are essentially a debtor nation and bankrupt and we don't have a printing press on euro. We could not buy oil.

We don't have the money. We just print fiat money through the federal reserve system (create from Jeckyll Isle) to finance everything. With our 12 trillion in debt, huge oil appetite, etc etc...you are talking about making the great depression look like disneyland(for a case study on what happens when you can't buy oil..look at what happened to north korea). Essentially we would have to announce bankrupty because of our oil appetite and our astronomical debt load which we will essentially never be able to repay anyway(but the position of the U.S. dollars is the only thing that keep us afloat..we haven't been the worlds economic superpower for quite some time..it is a world economy)..the country would come to standstill from inflation and increased interests rates because of high oil prices..We would go into insolvency.Iraq has the second largest proven oil reserves and was venerable because of Saddam. We had to stop him from taking transactions on the euro and convincing other countries to do so. Opec would love nothing more than to convert to the Euro. Every dollar they receive and store in U.S. currency continues to lose a tremendous amount of value because of the continuous drag of the U.S. dollar. However, no one has the power to go against the will of our military. Challengers only have to think of Saddam as an illustration of our will if it goes unopposed. The U.S.(neo conservs are in power) could give two shits about Saddam and his internal politics, disastrous human rights policy, weapons of mass destruction ( he is one of many of dictactors with the same record). Saddam was strategic to a movement that has a belief in the statement "the ends justifies the means". . This administration and the neoconservatives are all student of Nikkolo Machievelli, the man who penned the phrase. Only need to know his history to understand the type of element that is currently in power. These statements aren't speculation but verifiable facts. To understand the elements of the current policy in regards to Iraq is to see that this war was inevitable and planned by this administration. 9/11 was the disaster that the needed to implement this plan under the tag of a war against "terrorism". To understand the goal of this administration is to understand what our policy will be in Iraq and in the middle east in general and for Israel in general. One can easily determine what will happen and why...makes it very easy to understand why we picked a character like Chalibi for leadership and one doesn't need to media to understand why he has been disenfranchised.

So the reasons why we are in Iraq:

1. If the world began using the Euro to trade in oil our country would lose economic control and Saddam was pushing this.
2. Iraq has the worlds second largest oil reserves in the new era of PEAK OIL (you can do a search on google to learn about this monumental event in the world's history.
3. We needed to have a democratic government in the heart of this part of the world because of the coming world's oil crisis.

This is about the survival of America as the World's SUPERPOWER. That is what these people want to remain.

There was NO CONNECTION between 9/11 and Iraq. There we NO weapons of mass destruction. WE KNEW this and just used it as an excuse to invade Iraq. We needed the world trade center bombing to do this.

Someone asked my with knowing that the U.S. ecomony was crashing and I was president and Iraq was the solution..would I have made the war on Iraq? My response was this:This is my issue with going to War though it may end being something that almost seemed necessary.

I don't believe that the ends justifies the mean..i.e...you can't be immoral in the name of morality..that constitutes a contradiction of terms. Contradictions don't exist. If you check one of your premises you will find that one of them is wrong, but that is a philophical argument.

But no. The problem is with our ever growing state of our mixed economy. We are moving more away from capitalism and more towards fascism. Iraq just buys time.

Going to Iraq is like trying to cure a dying tree by examining the leaves. You need to examine the roots. Our problem is the lose of value of the U.S. dollar. We need to get off the unconstitutional quasi public-private institution of the Federal Reserve System. It is the #1 problem with our economy and has contributed nothing bury us in debt from the day of its inception. It is virus that will lead to our death. We need to have government issued currency. Government issued currency was our constitution right. If you don't understand the nature of the federal reserve, you should do some research.


Number 2...cut the increasing government spending deficit. Again, the only way this is possible because we have access to unlimited fiat money through the federal reserve.

Begin to clean the system of non essential government instituations that are rooted in socialism. Essentially everything began with Hoover and then extended with Nixon. Our government is drastically oversized.

Place economists in the key positions that are educated in Austrian economists(especially that of Ludwig von Mises). Our country has been lead astray by Keynesians.

The U.S. hasn't been the world economic power for quite sometime now. It is a world economy, with Europe and now India becoming very strong because it is a knowledge center. Someone mentioned China being a power to be watched. The Yen is undervalued now, but china faces HUGE problems moving forward..i.e..it has over 1 billion people, but only 1.2 million have college educations, privatization issues, etc.

But, Iraq is not a solution. We still don't know how that situation will play out. Iraq will NEVER be a democracy..NEVER. at best it will be a Republic. However, at this point, we don't know if we can accomplish our puppet government so it may all have been for nothing.

I wrote this years ago on BGOL..AFTER i came back from Iraq.

 

[BigUnc]

Your saying alot but not tying it together and it's all a jumble mess plus your discounting important pieces. I'll stand by the info that the Taliban was a wholly created entity of the ISI. This idea that the U.S. funded both the warlords and the Taliban just isn't supported by the info out at this time. That would suppose that after the warlords defeated the Afghan government the U.S. then turned on them and supported the Taliban who in turn drove the warlords from Kabul who in turn let Bin Laden set up his Jihadist training camps. What a tangled web your weaving. It's a kown fact that the Saudi government funded the Wahhabism movement worldwide through the Madrassas and were widely criticized for it after 9/11 until they stopped. Haven't heard anyone dispute that nor have the relationships between the Bushes and the Saudi Royal family been disputed. Not even by the Bushes themselves. Can't think of his name right now but the Fat white dude from Canada covered this and others have expanded on it. Bin Ladens family was more than a mere construction company but was trusted by the Saudi King with building some of the most revered religous sites in all of Islam. You have to look deeper and farther than the obvious. Your in the rabbit hole and through the looking glass. What seems complex is really easy and what seems easy is complex. Some people have been watching these happenings long before 9/11 happened and were predicting something of this magnitude was going to happen. Once you figure that out you'll get an appreciation of whats coming and some new players on the scene that the U.S. isn't prepared for and are currently kicking U.S. ass in Iraq, raising hell in Nigeria and running parts of Brazil. They're growing, learning,networking and open source. Beware of the global guerrilla.

 

[Spectrum]

Your saying alot but not tying it together and it's all a jumble mess plus your discounting important pieces.

You must be joking right?. You haven't even displayed that you understand the pieces enough to tie it all together. What I have been doing is helping you get a better picture of what has transpired. Obviously, you data set is limited. That is what I have been EXPOUNDING on all of your comments and filling you in. I have also been dumbing it down as to not get too deep with it...plus that is a time sponse and I have a software specifications report to review.

The irony of you even attempting to call my writing a jumbled mess and I have been doing is cleaning up your misrepresentations of events and entities in his thread

It's a kown fact that the Saudi government funded the Wahhabism movement worldwide through the Madrassas and were widely criticized for it after 9/11 until they stopped.

Again, Please familiarize yourself with Wahhabism. Under how it become influential and what effect it had on the Saudi government and what they do to appease the Wahhabists and the fundamentalist movement at large.

Haven't heard anyone dispute that nor have the relationships between the Bushes and the Saudi Royal family been disputed. Not even by the Bushes themselves. Can't think of his name right now but the Fat white dude from Canada covered this and others have expanded on it.

Reading comprehension is essential. My post was not about the relationship between Bush and the Saudi Royal family. My post about the supposed plausibility of a relationship with Bid Laden and how it is extremely fallacious to draw a connection between the two because Bush's relationship with the Carlyle Group.

Bin Ladens family was more than a mere construction company but was trusted by the Saudi King with building some of the most revered religous sites in all of Islam.

The mention of the construction operation was made in specific to Osama Bid Laden...not the Bid Laden Family. Again...reading comprehension brotha. The fact of the matter was, contrary to your thought, Osama Bin Laden was never broke and continued to operate a thriving construction business well after he was ousted from Saudi Arabia and disconnected from his family. This is a fact that you were not aware of.

You have to look deeper and farther than the obvious. Your in the rabbit hole and through the looking glass. What seems complex is really easy and what seems easy is complex.

Ironic considering that you have displayed the surface level understanding of the people and entities at hand and I have had to expound in order to illustrate this fact. I will admit better than most people who post here, but still limited...

Some people have been watching these happenings long before 9/11 happened and were predicting something of this magnitude was going to happen. Once you figure that out you'll get an appreciation of whats coming and some new players on the scene that the U.S. isn't prepared for and are currently kicking U.S. ass in Iraq, raising hell in Nigeria and running parts of Brazil. They're growing, learning,networking and open source. Beware of the global guerrilla.

I'm think I have displayed I am MUCH MORE EQUIPPED to make that judgement.

What does Brasil have to do with this?

You do know that I speak Portuguese and live in Brasil right? Have you ever seen the Brasil 101, 202, or Brasil 303 posts. Do a search... I wrote those What do you want to know about Brasil

 

[BigUnc]

One thing alot of people need to do is change their source of info. Try these 2 and after going through them your perspective should change. If not, oh well I tried.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_page.html
http://www.globalguerrillas.typepad.com

 

[Spectrum]

One thing alot of people need to do is change their source of info. Try these 2 and after going through them your perspective should change. If not, oh well I tried.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_page.html
http://www.globalguerrillas.typepad.com

Reading http://english.aljazeera.net is also a good place to get the opposing view. But let me tell you, reading an article here or there is not going to educate you on the region throughly. You are going to only get a surface level view that is not thorough. You need to pick up some good books or better yet... get Arab friends from the region. Also, being that I actually studied Arabic formally, have traveled to multiple countries in the region, and have good friends from the region that I communicate with regular, that will get you an even better view... especially actually going to region and talking to the people and learning FIRST HAND.

For instance, you made reference to Brasil and you probably have never even been to the country nor speak any portuguese. I have been traveling here for a decade, speak the language, and live here. I have first hand knowledge of the country... anything you get is going to be second hand. It completely limits your perspective.

 

[Professor]

George Bush is still in charge so the terrorists knows not to fuck with him. Don't let George fool ya, even though he's from texas(I think), he's str8 gangsta.

 

[johniz]

I recently saw a London documentary that raised a great question:

Who coined the name Al Qaeda??

Never,in all the messages, according the the documentary (on Google video) has a Middle Eastern sect given themselves that name.

More here on Frontline.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

"The Dark Side" is a particularly revealing documentary.

peace

 

[smokedacane]

George Bush is still in charge so the terrorists knows not to fuck with him. Don't let George fool ya, even though he's from texas(I think), he's str8 gangsta.

George Bush is from Connecticut and nothing about him is "gangsta"

 

[johniz]

George Bush is still in charge so the terrorists knows not to fuck with him. Don't let George fool ya, even though he's from texas(I think), he's str8 gangsta.

Thought he was from Conneticut.

 

[BigUnc]

Been doing more than reading an article here or there. I've been following the Jihadi movement since the late 80's. It's been part of my job description since the first World Trade Center attack. Can remember attending conferences, workshops, training on the Federal, State and local level from way back concerning terrorist groups worldwide. Attended terrorism related classes in Anniston, Alabama a year before 9/11. Been to Quantico, VA on numerous occasions also numerous other places across the country. So I'm comfortable with the info i'm sayng here. All i'm saying to you and others is that what you see ,read or hear may not be the absolute truth to just take it in and file it away cause new info may come out to contradict what you are so vehemently defending today. So everyone's that's just coming to this since 9/11 welcome. Keep on digging but you still have a way to go before you catch up.

 

[BigUnc]

I recently saw a London documentary that raised a great question:

Who coined the name Al Qaeda??

Never,in all the messages, according the the documentary (on Google video) has a Middle Eastern sect given themselves that name.

More here on Frontline.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

"The Dark Side" is a particularly revealing documentary.

peace

your on the scent brother. Absolutely correct. Bin Laden nor anyone associated with this group has ever refered to it by the name Al Queda.

 

[Spectrum]

Been doing more than reading an article here or there. I've been following the Jihadi movement since the late 80's. It's been part of my job description since the first World Trade Center attack. Can remember attending conferences, workshops, training on the Federal, State and local level from way back concerning terrorist groups worldwide. Attended terrorism related classes in Anniston, Alabama a year before 9/11. Been to Quantico, VA on numerous occasions also numerous other places across the country. So I'm comfortable with the info i'm sayng here. All i'm saying to you and others is that what you see ,read or hear may not be the absolute truth to just take it in and file it away cause new info may come out to contradict what you are so vehemently defending today. So everyone's that's just coming to this since 9/11. Keep on digging but you still have a way to go before you catch up.

If you have done all of that, how do you have such an incompletely understanding of the subject matter. How the Hell have you been following the "Jihadi" movement since the 80s and you thought the CIA only worked with ISI...and you didn't know we funded multiple afghan commanders..or that Bid Laden was not only operating profitably companies in the Sudan and Afghanistan but all over the middle east? How could you be studying that for 20 years and not know that. That is understanding for someone studying this for 20 day... but not 20 YEARS. Clearly you are either overstating your familiarity or the amount of time you have been peeking into the rabbit hole. I had to step in and clean up every one of your posts. Go back and reread this thread. Everyone of your posts contained incompletely statement and erroneous suppositions and as opposed to just saying..ok cool... you tried to turn this around into some connecting the dots BS when you had not even identified all the dots yet.

I am happy if you attended a terrorism class before 9/11, IF you are telling the truth. Your proclamations in this thread reek of a person who has only read a few articles and print magazines and then proclaims to have done all the way to the bottom of the rabbit hole. But September 11, 2001 I had already been speaking Arabic for nearly 6 years.

The irony is that I have not completely disagree with many of your assessments. However, what I had done is illustrate that your dataset is incompletely and has caused you to draw some fallacious conclusions. I have not attacked your logic as much as attacked your incomplete data set. An error in logic is much more critical.

Keep on digging but you still have a way to go before you catch up.

If this is your way of faking reality and protecting your ego...how does it really serve you. A 10 year old could enter this thread and know that you are the way that has a hell of a lot of catching up to do. But if that is what you need to do, be my guess... because you don't even believe that.. you can simply go back and read your responses to my posts initially to understand that I was opening you up to information you had not encountered.

 

[Spectrum]

I would also like to know what you meant with the Brasil reference...

 

[BigUnc]

You must be joking right?. You haven't even displayed that you understand the pieces enough to tie it all together. What I have been doing is helping you get a better picture of what has transpired. Obviously, you data set is limited. That is what I have been EXPOUNDING on all of your comments and filling you in. I have also been dumbing it down as to not get too deep with it...plus that is a time sponse and I have a software specifications report to review.

The irony of you even attempting to call my writing a jumbled mess and I have been doing is cleaning up your misrepresentations of events and entities in his thread



Again, Please familiarize yourself with Wahhabism. Under how it become influential and what effect it had on the Saudi government and what they do to appease the Wahhabists and the fundamentalist movement at large.



Reading comprehension is essential. My post was not about the relationship between Bush and the Saudi Royal family. My post about the supposed plausibility of a relationship with Bid Laden and how it is extremely fallacious to draw a connection between the two because Bush's relationship with the Carlyle Group.




The mention of the construction operation was made in specific to Osama Bid Laden...not the Bid Laden Family. Again...reading comprehension brotha. The fact of the matter was, contrary to your thought, Osama Bin Laden was never broke and continued to operate a thriving construction business well after he was ousted from Saudi Arabia and disconnected from his family. This is a fact that you were not aware of.





Ironic considering that you have displayed the surface level understanding of the people and entities at hand and I have had to expound in order to illustrate this fact. I will admit better than most people who post here, but still limited...



I'm think I have displayed I am MUCH MORE EQUIPPED to make that judgement.

What does Brasil have to do with this?

You do know that I speak Portuguese and live in Brasil right? Have you ever seen the Brasil 101, 202, or Brasil 303 posts. Do a search... I wrote those What do you want to know about Brasil

Again long ass post saying essentially nothing new thats not already there. Never said I subscribed to any of it just that neither you nor i have the true facts. It's all a matter of interpretation of the available info. My mind is wide open to new info if you have any but you don't and your missing critical pieces of info that is out there. But keep cherry picking info to suit your viewpoint and discard any that doesn't. Yep that will lead to the truth

 

[rude_dog]

There hasn't been another attack because they just got lucky. They plain and simple got lucky. They caught us asleep, caught us at the change of guards. New administration came in, different priorioties, needed time to settle in. I doubt if they can pull off another 9/11 but some Islamic terrorist will strike in the US again, won't be a big as 9/11 but they will strike again.

I don't give the Bush administration too much credit for there not being another attack. I believe that any administration would have responded with like force to Afghanistan after 9/11. I can't believe it when Republicans claim that the Democrats would have did nothing. You have to be a real ignorant ass redneck to believe that. If 9/11 didn't have happened in 2001, it could have happened in 2002, 2003. Anti-terrorism just wasn't a priority for the Bush Administration.

Al Qaeda did plan another attack on the US. They planned to release poisonous gas on the subway in New York. At the last second, either Bin Laden or Zarawi decided against it. That attack would have succeeded.

Al Qaeda is on the run and has been fragmented into many different splinter cells. The US has made many improvement to homeland security. They will try again.

 

[BlackPilot]

On the real its cuz of this man

I dont know what to say about 9/11. but i can live with this

 

[Spectrum]

. My mind is wide open to new info if you have any but you don't and your missing critical pieces of info that is out there. But keep cherry picking info to suit your viewpoint and discard any that doesn't. Yep that will lead to the truth

Riiiiiiiight.... I didn't post any new information... to your best information Bid Laden had run out of my money right? Clearly you did not know he was running profitable construction business all over the middle east... oh.. that was not new information right? To your own admittance..you didn't know the CIA was still funding Afghan commanders AFTER the official departure of the U.S.S.R. from Afghanistan... oh yeah.. that was not new information posted in this thread .the list goes on and on...The irony is that YOU have not posted anything new in this thread. Much of it...I had to clean up because it was an incomplete assessment.. couple incomplete data and the lack of understanding of the region in question and you can weak suppositions.

Come on man..give it break. I came into this thread humbling expounding on points and you turn it into a pissing match... and you clearly did not know who you were dealing with in this issue...especially with all that connect the dots bullshit. There are many people that may have more information than me on this subject.. but you know you are not one of them. This thread has made that all to obvious. I have even been to the damn region at hand. If you do a search here, you will probably read on my assessments of it. I have first hand experience.

Regardles...I have to finish up my work.....that is beginning to be a real waste of time.

 

[rude_dog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUnc
Some people have been watching these happenings long before 9/11 happened and were predicting something of this magnitude was going to happen. Once you figure that out you'll get an appreciation of whats coming and some new players on the scene that the U.S. isn't prepared for and are currently kicking U.S. ass in Iraq, raising hell in Nigeria and running parts of Brazil. They're growing, learning,networking and open source. Beware of the global guerrilla.

I'm think I have displayed I am MUCH MORE EQUIPPED to make that judgement.

What does Brasil have to do with this?

You do know that I speak Portuguese and live in Brasil right? Have you ever seen the Brasil 101, 202, or Brasil 303 posts. Do a search... I wrote those What do you want to know about Brasil

Eewwll,

it has been reported in open source material that there may be Islamic terrorist groups operating in the tri-border area of Brazil, Columbia, and Venezuela. There is a large Muslim immigrant population in Venezuela and possibly Brazil.

Living in Brazil, you should no that Brazil doesn't have control over large parts of the jungle.

 

[BigUnc]

I would also like to know what you meant with the Brasil reference...

Thought you were in Brasil?? Don't know whats going on in the country your living in?

OK you are familiar with the PCC and how this gang according to info has now taking control of at least half of Sao Paulo and the battles between the police and gangs in Rio. This is coming from Articles in the Washington Post and Vanity fair. These criminal gangs and other similar groups apperently are communicating to some degree via the internet and exchanging ideas and best practice advice to each other. There is something new about it in that they seem quite willing to take on governments toe-to-toe and actually gain territory. Just came across some info that said worldwide these gangs are doing 2 trillion in business a year. The fear is that they may hook up with Jihadi groups when their mutual interest dictate.

 

[4freedom]

Al-Qaeda is a myth. That is a make believe organization.

 

[Spectrum]

Thought you were in Brasil?? Don't know whats going on in the country your living in?

OK you are familiar with the PCC and how this gang according to info has now taking control of at least half of Sao Paulo and the battles between the police and gangs in Rio. This is coming from Articles in the Washington Post and Vanity fair. These criminal gangs and other similar groups apperently are communicating to some degree via the internet and exchanging ideas and best practice advice to each other. There is something new about it in that they seem quite willing to take on governments toe-to-toe and actually gain territory. Just came across some info that said worldwide these gangs are doing 2 trillion in business a year. The fear is that they may hook up with Jihadi groups when their mutual interest dictate.

Dawg..self ownage for you buddy. I was asking your opinion to know why you at all referenced Brasil..not because I dont know the country. Do a damn search on my name. I actually live in Sao Paulo as I have stated for over a year..any mentioned this fact in a post early today actually

http://198.65.131.81/board/showthread.php?t=169146

Seen that chick on TV down in here Sao Paulo last month...she has had surgery done on her entire body..

Sefrick1,

Whose ass is that in your avatar?

But once again, your information is incorrect

I live in Sao Paulo. The PCC attacks happened in Sampa (Sao Paulo) while I was here.That attack happened several months ago and PPC hasn't taken over control over "Half" of Brasil. PCC, being that they control GUN trafficking, obviously had the means to inflict heavy damage on the undermanned and undersupplied police force. They did so to show they still had power. But the idea that they CONTROL the city or Brasil is ludicrous...it is not that powerful of an entiry..we are not talking about FARC or something. PPC is a gun tracking organization. Do you know why those attacks occurred? Because their leaders were being moved to Prisons in the interior of Brasil in order to loosen their grip on gun trafficking from the Prison. PCC is not a significant organization in Rio. It is mainly a Sao Paulo based organization that is heavy into gun trafficking primarily. The drug lords in the favellas of Rio...specifically Rocinha... dominant Rio.

BTW.. I used to live in Ipanema and Leblon as well.. in Rio..withing striking distance to Rocinha and actually have friends who live in that Favella as well.

Again, another situation where you have read an article and you think you know what's going on and you don't.

If you do a search on PCC here on BGOL you will see my posts about the organization where I pretty much explained what is it...how it operates... the attacks several months ago..how they started and how they ended.

If you are 2 trillion dollar a year figured are specifically for PCC and Rio related gangs you are all fucked up with your data homie

 

[BigUnc]

you know I had some more to add but I forgot that quick. Damn I'm getting old

 

[Spectrum]

you know I had some more to add but I forgot that quick. Damn I'm getting old

man.. I almost lost one my earlier posts..one of the longer ones..I was about to say fuck it and not repost it.. but i autosaved while typing it..

 

[Spectrum]

Another thing too.. You are not going to find indepth information about PCC online UNLESS you can read portuguese because English based journalists have never really done a very indepth analysis of the organization. However, what you can do is do a search for Primeiro Comando da Capital on google.. and then copy and paste into google translator (google language tools) and read that way.

 

[BigUnc]

Damn bruh what is it with you wanting me to research YOU and what you've said on here in the past. Come off your high horse it ain't gonna happen. Well I guess since YOU have spoken about whats going on in Brazil I guess thats the gospel and everybody else is reading comprehension challenged or don't have a clue. I beginning to think your just being contrarian or your just one arrogant mofo cause Rio's governor disagrees with your analyses so I think you better give him a call and tell him you have spoken and stop saying that shit.

 

[BigUnc]

Another thing too.. You are not going to find indepth information about PCC online UNLESS you can read portuguese because English based journalists have never really done a very indepth analysis of the organization. However, what you can do is do a search for Primeiro Comando da Capital on google.. and then copy and paste into google translator (google language tools) and read that way.

I'm aware of how to navigate around a computer. Where did I say that that my only source of info is online?

 

[dannyroman]

Cause Al Queadas Leader George Bush Didnt Give The Ok.

I'M NOMINATING THIS AS THE BEST ANSWER TO QUESTION EVER!!!!

ACCURATE TRUTH

 

[Spectrum]

Damn bruh what is it with you wanting me to research YOU and what you've said on here in the past. Come off your high horse it ain't gonna happen. Well I guess since YOU have spoken about whats going on in Brazil I guess thats the gospel and everybody else is reading comprehension challenged or don't have a clue. I beginning to think your just being contrarian or your just one arrogant mofo cause Rio's governor disagrees with your analyses so I think you better give him a call and tell him you have spoken and stop saying that shit.

Not on a high horse. But you are trying to comment about a city in another country because you read an article. Unfortunately for you, I happen to LIVE in the said city. Damn near half this site member know that already...obviously you didn't..when you speak of Brasil, you are speaking of a country that I have spent much of the last several years in..you have not even sniffed the borders.

The point is that you are a person who has NOT visited Brasil.. You do NOT speak any portuguese... and You have never set foot in the city in question..SAO PAULO. Yes, that makes me infinitely more qualified than YOU to speak on the subject..especially when I am typing this from my apartment on Rua Consolacao

Why not solicit the opinion of the Mayer of Sao Paulo. There is where PCC resides..not in fucking Rio. And if Mayer Cesar Maia was speaking about gangs..surely he was speaking of Rio's gang and even they don't "control" half the city. PCC has even less of a grip on Sao Paulo than the drug traffickers of the favelas in Rio... and they tend to keep the violence in specific favelas. I would know, because I live there a few years ago during one of the most violent drug wars.

The problem is that you are talking about a bunch of shit that you don't know anything about.

 

[Spectrum]

I'm aware of how to navigate around a computer. Where did I say that that my only source of info is online?

You obviously didn't get that info from a Paulista

 

[Spectrum]

You need to give this shit up. You are completely in over your head discussing anything about Brasil with me homie..completely.

 

[Scorsese]

Two reasons.

One to avoid the spill out when a Democrat becomes president and all the no-bid contracts, etc are more thoroughly reviewed. It is a lot easier to be difficult in a papertrail request when your documents are overseas.


The proximity to Saudi Arabia is not the issue.

There are two reasons for Dubai.

1.Proximity to the a majority of their redevelopment projects and distribution chains. The fact of the matter is that halliburton draws a large portion of their revenue from the Middle East.

2. Dubai is THE business center of the Middle East and the near eastern region in general. There are more multibillion development projects going on in that city than anywhere in the world. The UAE is a beacon of growth in the world.

Couple that with the fact that UAE has no income tax and no federal-level corporate tax it is no brainer.

Decreasing oversight, proximity to their revenue base, and tax incentives of the UAE are the reasons. Shit has nothing to do with the proximity to Saudi Arabia.

Don't misstate this. We are NOT at war with the ENTIRE Middle East.

I dont need to look up the region or the relationship of the countries. Not only have I been to the region... I have studied Arabic, and studies that areas since 96 before most people gave a damn. I am almost positive there are very few people posting on this board that even know an inkling as much about the region and it's history than me. The only other person I have scene on this board that really knows it is Thothprod.

EEWLLL,

I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS ONE... NOT ONLY DO I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST THAN YOU , I ALSO SPEAK FLUENT ARABIC, AND I JUST LEFT DUBIA YESTERDAY.... AND I ALSO HAPPEN TO BE ENGAGED TO A JORDANIAN WOMAN.... NOT TO MENTION MY DAUGHTERS MOTHER IS PALESTINIAN...

I HAVE BEEN TO ABOUT EVERY ARAB COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND IM ONLY 30 YEARS OF AGE.... (AND FOR THE RECORD IRANIANS ARE NOT ARAB)

 

[Spectrum]

EEWLLL,

I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS ONE... NOT ONLY DO I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST THAN YOU , I ALSO SPEAK FLUENT ARABIC, AND I JUST LEFT DUBIA YESTERDAY.... AND I ALSO HAPPEN TO BE ENGAGED TO A JORDANIAN WOMAN.... NOT TO MENTION MY DAUGHTERS MOTHER IS PALESTINIAN...

I HAVE BEEN TO ABOUT EVERY ARAB COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND IM ONLY 30 YEARS OF AGE.... (AND FOR THE RECORD IRANIANS ARE NOT ARAB)

who the hell said Iranians were Arab. Iran has not even been mentioned in this thread.. get out of here you very OBVIOUS troll

 

[smokedacane]

ok i'm going to give u a reason the bush adminstration could not have been behind 9/11. if u cant get a boat or chopper to the super dome how the fuck can they knock down a building.

Because they weren't interested in getting boats and choppers to the dome, please tell me that wasn't a serious question???????????????????


??????????????


?????????????????????????????