Best Analysis Of What Really Happened To The Boeing 737 Max From A Pilot & Software Engineer

GAMETHEORY

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
its a tweet thread....the short of it is:

  1. Needed to use big engines to save MONEY
  2. Decided to attach them to existing airframe to save MONEY
  3. When proven unstable, attempt a software bandaid to save MONEY
  4. New system requires sensors and indicator lights but cost MONEY so decided to sell as an “option” to make MONEY
  5. Even after it was obvious to Boeing what the problem was after Lion Air, they attempt second bandaid to prevent from losing a fucking ton of MONEY from cancelled orders
When the CEO of Boeing is testifying in front Congress, I’m gonna totally believe him when he says safety is their #1 priority.

more here....
 

D24OHA

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
its a tweet thread....the short of it is:

  1. Needed to use big engines to save MONEY
  2. Decided to attach them to existing airframe to save MONEY
  3. When proven unstable, attempt a software bandaid to save MONEY
  4. New system requires sensors and indicator lights but cost MONEY so decided to sell as an “option” to make MONEY
  5. Even after it was obvious to Boeing what the problem was after Lion Air, they attempt second bandaid to prevent from losing a fucking ton of MONEY from cancelled orders
When the CEO of Boeing is testifying in front Congress, I’m gonna totally believe him when he says safety is their #1 priority.

more here....



I read a few articles on this, some of the things I got was...

The 737Max was sold as an update / upgrade to the 737 which was not true. Once they changed the engines and mounting / aerodynamics of the plane, it changed how you fly the Max vs the 737. But it was sold as no training needed if you fly the 737...

So 2 automated systems were added with no real explanation or training given to pilots.

The automated system engaged and as stated there were no indicators or alerts that that is what is happening. So pilots had a few short minutes to identify the problem, figure out how fix it, then they have to feel/ realize that the automated system (they weren't trained on) is engaged and that it has to be turned off before they can correct the issue.

The automated system had more control than the pilot... Meaning the pilot could turn the yoke completely one way and it would have no effect. The pilot could try to adjust the lift/or some other system and again no effect....

There was one sensor that engaged both new systems. They knew one sensor was constantly giving falsre readings and erroneously engaging the automated systems... But surprise surprise, when they added a second sensor..... No more false readings.

How the fuck do you change the feel and flight of the plane, add 2 new systems for it, not ship it with the extra sensor and lights to keep the pilots informed and then first and foremost NOT TRAIN THE PILOTS!

Boeing deserves all the lawsuits, backlash and smoke they get from this. They perpetuated a fruad and it cost hundreds of lives.... For what, the bottom line...? Well that bottom line is going lower!
 
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ViCiouS

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
I read a few articles on this, some of the things I got was...

The 737Max was sold as an update / upgrade to the 737 which was not true. Once they changed the engines and mounting / aerodynamics of the plane, it changed how you fly the Max vs the 737. But it was sold as no training needed if you fly the 737...

So 2 automated systems were added with no real explanation or training given to pilots.

The automated system engaged and as stated there were no indicators or alerts that that is what is happening. So pilots had a few short minutes to identify the problem, figure out how fix it, then they have to feel/ realize that the automated system (they weren't trained on) is engaged and that it has to be turned off before they can correct the issue.

The automated system had more control than the pilot... Meaning the pilot could turn the yoke completely one way and it would have no effect. The pilot could try to adjust the lift/or some other system and again no effect....

There was one sensor that engaged both new systems. They knew one sensor was constantly giving falsre readings and erroneously engaging the automated systems... But surprise surprise, when they added a second sensor..... No more false readings.

How the fuck do you change the feel and flight of the plane, add 2 new systems for it, not ship it with the extra sensor and lights to keep the pilots informed and then first and foremost NOT TRAIN THE PILOTS!

Boeing deserves all the lawsuits, backlash and smoke they get from this. They perpetuated a fruad and it cost hundreds of lives.... For what, the bottom line...? Well that bottom line is going lower!
1*SZ3LBwFpSj0cttd9T99msA.png
 

geechiedan

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
its a tweet thread....the short of it is:

  1. Needed to use big engines to save MONEY
  2. Decided to attach them to existing airframe to save MONEY
  3. When proven unstable, attempt a software bandaid to save MONEY
  4. New system requires sensors and indicator lights but cost MONEY so decided to sell as an “option” to make MONEY
  5. Even after it was obvious to Boeing what the problem was after Lion Air, they attempt second bandaid to prevent from losing a fucking ton of MONEY from cancelled orders
When the CEO of Boeing is testifying in front Congress, I’m gonna totally believe him when he says safety is their #1 priority.

more here....


5c7724f92500002203c894bc.jpeg

send this to AOC and lets watch the fucking fireworks happen at the hearing cuz she WILL dig in that ass with a shovel in both hands! :devil:

seriously..I'm watching cspan like its a playoff game..like :hellyea: whose ass is AOC gonna break her foot of in today?!

:giggle::giggle:
 

futureshock

Renegade of this atomic age
Registered
I read a few articles on this, some of the things I got was...

The 737Max was sold as an update / upgrade to the 737 which was not true. Once they changed the engines and mounting / aerodynamics of the plane, it changed how you fly the Max vs the 737. But it was sold as no training needed if you fly the 737...

So 2 automated systems were added with no real explanation or training given to pilots.

The automated system engaged and as stated there were no indicators or alerts that that is what is happening. So pilots had a few short minutes to identify the problem, figure out how fix it, then they have to feel/ realize that the automated system (they weren't trained on) is engaged and that it has to be turned off before they can correct the issue.

The automated system had more control than the pilot... Meaning the pilot could turn the yoke completely one way and it would have no effect. The pilot could try to adjust the lift/or some other system and again no effect....

There was one sensor that engaged both new systems. They knew one sensor was constantly giving falsre readings and erroneously engaging the automated systems... But surprise surprise, when they added a second sensor..... No more false readings.

How the fuck do you change the feel and flight of the plane, add 2 new systems for it, not ship it with the extra sensor and lights to keep the pilots informed and then first and foremost NOT TRAIN THE PILOTS!

Boeing deserves all the lawsuits, backlash and smoke they get from this. They perpetuated a fruad and it cost hundreds of lives.... For what, the bottom line...? Well that bottom line is going lower!

"they put the fuel way too close to the front of the plane causing it to tip slightly when in the air

and its heavier than the other 737s .
so by this tipping actyion these safety mechanisms work against the own plane itself."


"The engines were too big to fit under the wing so they pushed them forward.. then used software to counter balance the plane. The engines should have never been installed on the Max 8 or 9 to begin with, but it saved Boeing the cost of designing a new plane."

"I currently fly the B737NG (BBJ), which is a little different than the MAX, and have a lot of friends that fly it. I can tell you that the entire Boeing pilot community hasn't been this concerned since the rudder hard-over problems of the 90s. "

"Reading a pilot forum, it seems like the crash had similar features to the recent Lion Air crash of 737-MAX

What seems to have happened there is that the wrong input of airspeed (possibly related to a faulty sensor) caused the MCAS system to point the plane straight into the ground.

Boeing Co. is advising airlines on procedures to deal with false readings from an plane sensor that authorities say malfunctioned on a 737 Max jet that crashed off the Indonesian coast over a week ago.

The operations-manual bulletin was issued Tuesday, Boeing said in a statement posted to Twitter, and tells crew to use existing guidelines when dealing with erroneous inputs from the so-called angle of attack sensor. That sensor is intended to maintain air flow over a plane’s wings but if it malfunctions can lead to an aerodynamic stall — which can cause aircraft to abruptly dive."

"Here is the caveman explanation for the MCAS system:

1)Big engines on wing changed stall characteristics during certification tests
2) At high AoA, flaps up, full down elevator insufficient
3) MCAS automatically trims nose down at high AoA, flaps up, autopilot off
4) 1 Faulty AoA indication is all it takes to begin nose down trim
5) full aft control yoke does not automatically cut off MCAS nose down trim"

"Boeing executives sat down last November with pilots at the Allied Pilots Association’s low-slung brick headquarters in Fort Worth.

Tensions were running high. One of Boeing’s new jets — hailed by the company as an even more reliable version of Boeing’s stalwart 737 — had crashed into the ocean off Indonesia shortly after takeoff, killing all 189 people on board the flight operated by Lion Air.

After the crash, Boeing issued a bulletin disclosing that this line of planes, known as the 737 Max 8, was equipped with a new type of software as part of the plane’s automated functions. Some pilots were furious that they were not told about the new software when the plane was unveiled.

Dennis Tajer, a 737 captain who attended the meeting with Boeing executives, recalled, “They said, ‘Look, we didn’t include it because we have a lot of people flying on this and we didn’t want to inundate you with information.’ ”
 

D24OHA

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
"they put the fuel way too close to the front of the plane causing it to tip slightly when in the air

and its heavier than the other 737s .
so by this tipping actyion these safety mechanisms work against the own plane itself."


"The engines were too big to fit under the wing so they pushed them forward.. then used software to counter balance the plane. The engines should have never been installed on the Max 8 or 9 to begin with, but it saved Boeing the cost of designing a new plane."

"I currently fly the B737NG (BBJ), which is a little different than the MAX, and have a lot of friends that fly it. I can tell you that the entire Boeing pilot community hasn't been this concerned since the rudder hard-over problems of the 90s. "

"Reading a pilot forum, it seems like the crash had similar features to the recent Lion Air crash of 737-MAX

What seems to have happened there is that the wrong input of airspeed (possibly related to a faulty sensor) caused the MCAS system to point the plane straight into the ground.

Boeing Co. is advising airlines on procedures to deal with false readings from an plane sensor that authorities say malfunctioned on a 737 Max jet that crashed off the Indonesian coast over a week ago.

The operations-manual bulletin was issued Tuesday, Boeing said in a statement posted to Twitter, and tells crew to use existing guidelines when dealing with erroneous inputs from the so-called angle of attack sensor. That sensor is intended to maintain air flow over a plane’s wings but if it malfunctions can lead to an aerodynamic stall — which can cause aircraft to abruptly dive."

"Here is the caveman explanation for the MCAS system:

1)Big engines on wing changed stall characteristics during certification tests
2) At high AoA, flaps up, full down elevator insufficient
3) MCAS automatically trims nose down at high AoA, flaps up, autopilot off
4) 1 Faulty AoA indication is all it takes to begin nose down trim
5) full aft control yoke does not automatically cut off MCAS nose down trim"

"Boeing executives sat down last November with pilots at the Allied Pilots Association’s low-slung brick headquarters in Fort Worth.

Tensions were running high. One of Boeing’s new jets — hailed by the company as an even more reliable version of Boeing’s stalwart 737 — had crashed into the ocean off Indonesia shortly after takeoff, killing all 189 people on board the flight operated by Lion Air.

After the crash, Boeing issued a bulletin disclosing that this line of planes, known as the 737 Max 8, was equipped with a new type of software as part of the plane’s automated functions. Some pilots were furious that they were not told about the new software when the plane was unveiled.

Dennis Tajer, a 737 captain who attended the meeting with Boeing executives, recalled, “They said, ‘Look, we didn’t include it because we have a lot of people flying on this and we didn’t want to inundate you with information.’ ”
This along with the numerous other quotes and articles coming out paint a very bad picture of Boeing and it's executives.....
 

futureshock

Renegade of this atomic age
Registered
"The engines were too big to fit under the wing so they pushed them forward.. then used software to counter balance the plane. The engines should have never been installed on the Max 8 or 9 to begin with, but it saved Boeing the cost of designing a new plane."

 

Nzinga

Lover of Africa
BGOL Investor
Software engineer?

a. He is not an engineer;
b. He has absolutely no idea about kinematics

He simply needs to shutup, or go and create websites;
 

Nzinga

Lover of Africa
BGOL Investor
GP...

The reason why they changed to high bypass ratio turbo jets was not save money
but to make more money, or at least not to lose it to Airbus. The changes Boeing
made cost millions more. I gotta go to work, but I can speak about this later
 

BoxEater

Talking shit and looking at pussy with the fellas
BGOL Investor
Bruh

I blame Drumpf....
Still waiting on him to condemn a corporation for putting profits ahead of people's lives and general safety.....
Either you or he will be dead before that happens, my brother. But wishful thinking nonetheless.
 
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