Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrage

[Rick Ronson]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

he graduated

you can crawl under the platform you know...

theres about 2ft of space

you need more than that sorry for your fat as

no since going out like Ramo

 

[Rick Ronson]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

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[ViCiouS]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

I see your points. Since I read the original story, I learned that the incident took place at about 12:30 PM, meaning it was daytime outside. Therefore, the lighting conditions would be very different than those in the subway. So, I do see how you might have come to see things as you do.

Three things:
Neither you or I were there, so we don't know whether the man was running continuously during those 22 seconds before impact, or whether he'd fun a few steps, stop, move a few more steps, stop etc. All we know is the photographer said when he saw the man fall onto the tracks he "started to run". Secondly, you neglected to mention that Abbasi said he used his flash to signal the conductor. If it was the same flash mounted on the camera in the picture of him, that would explain the clarity of the picture he captured. Thirdly, no one said that image was published "untouched". Clearly that's not the case, given that it was obviously cropped to fit the page. What we see IS a clear image, but it's not one professionally shot with prep. Looking at the amount of grain and that ugly flash sheen all over it, I would figure that in addition to the crop that was done, at the very least, the white balance and exposure were adjusted in a RAW editor, and it was possibly run through some noise reduction to boot. The remaining visible grain in the pics indicates to my eyes that a fair amount of exposure adjustment took place after the fact.

I hear your point about composition, but I stand by my original point regarding cropping affecting composition and my point regarding and where the man would be standing and what direction his camera would be pointing in if he was truly trying to signal the conductor with his flash.

In summary, he could be telling the truth, he may lying or it is also possible that he may not remember every detail exactly as they occurred, given the excitement and shocking nature of the events. My only bone is that I don't think there is enough photography-related evidence to conclude that the guy's account was total bullshit.

That's right. The photographer wasn't the one that pushed the victim onto the track.

I didn't argue composition or post work -and you don't know what the fuck you're talking about if you are going to say the flash used is the reason the train isn't soft...
I was never saying dude setup reflectors and had his light meter out - what I am saying is his first reaction was to get the shot... not only that, but he had to stop and manually adjust the camera in order to get THOSE shots.

1. if he was using the flash pictured, any half ass photographer knows he could have easily fired off that strobe repeatedly without taking any pictures -

2. to get those shots - his first reaction after seeing this guy in the way of a train must have been to at the very least flip the camera mode selector to an auto setting... how is that "unintentional" or "trying to help"?

3. the fact that in low light, a train moving 25 to 30 feet per second, with none of the cars are blurred or soft proves the asshole had to adjust the camera.

 

[knightmelodic]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

Really?! YOU NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR IGNORANCE!


I said what I said BECAUSE I KNOW. Don't be an jackass. By calling BULLSHIT on what I said, your ass is giving folks in FUTURE accidents a reason to SECOND GUESS a RELIABLE and LIFE SAVING piece of info.



I'm VERY familiar with ELEVATED AND SUBWAY train systems, BOTH in New York AND Chicago. . . and have been ON the tracks and THROUGH the subway tunnels as a former graffiti artist since 1986. Ask ANY track worker. Either stoop beneath the edge or lay on your side. It's FILTHY but you'll LIVE/SURVIVE.

HERE THIS PEOPLE
THERE IS PROTECTIVE SPACE UNDERNEATH THE EDGE OF ALL PLATFORMS . . . ALL OF THEM!
​

Take a GOOD look for yourselves next time you're riding the train. The average size person CAN fit safely, until the train passes or until rescue is on the scene.


It's fucking sad this guy died unnecessarily. I'm disgusted at the folks on the platform. But the MTA shoulders the bulk of the blame.

JG

Fucking tagger. I work down there, son. Now who do you think knows more about the system?

 

[knightmelodic]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

The reason why transit CANNOT post this is because those spaces ARE NOT uniform, while they may hold true for a majority of the stations, THEY DO NOT HOLD TRUE FOR ALL!!!

And then there ars intangibles such, as mentioned above, @ some stations the third rail does indeed run underneath the platform, in other cases, if the platform is along ANY sort of turn parts of the train may go underneath the platform, and don't forget, there is a piece of equipment called the "shoe", this is where power from the 3rd rail enters the train, understand quite clearly that if one shoe is energized, THEY ARE ALL ENERGIZED!!!

And as far as having the train go over you again it depends on the station, some stations have split ties and a cutout trackbed which you can indeed lie in, others have full track ties in which case THERE IS NO ROOM FOR THE TRAIN TO PASS OVER YOU!!!

I have no doubt that this guy's problem was being drunk, until you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that there is no train coming he could've stayed in the area between the tracks in between the girders.

Also, someone else noted the cutouts, they too ARE NOT OF UNIFORM SIZE throughout the system, I hate to point this out but several people, MAINLY TRANSIT WORKERS, have been killed thinking that a particular cutout was safe.

Of course if there's one close that's where you go, but DO NOT EVEN BREATH until the train passes.

I myself have worked as a contractor for years in the subway system, and my Dad worked for almost 40 years in maintenance, retiring as a supervisor for all 5 boros, in that position he was ALWAYS amongst the first to receive emergency calls to come in upon any track related deaths, and yearly there are quite a few!

Peeps forget that even though it is just one system now, when it was built there were several different companies, and even within those companies stretches were built @ different times and with little governmental oversight since they were private companies, this is why in some areas everything is uniform, but in some they are not!

True story.

 

[T_Holmes]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

I don't care how the shot got taken.

Putting it on the front page was just a bad look. Right, wrong, drunk, sober... That dude has a family.

Not cool. Not cool.

 

[respiration]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

I didn't argue composition or post work -and you don't know what the fuck you're talking about if you are going to say the flash used is the reason the train isn't soft...
I was never saying dude setup reflectors and had his light meter out - what I am saying is his first reaction was to get the shot... not only that, but he had to stop and manually adjust the camera in order to get THOSE shots.

1. if he was using the flash pictured, any half ass photographer knows he could have easily fired off that strobe repeatedly without taking any pictures -

2. to get those shots - his first reaction after seeing this guy in the way of a train must have been to at the very least flip the camera mode selector to an auto setting... how is that "unintentional" or "trying to help"?

3. the fact that in low light, a train moving 25 to 30 feet per second, with none of the cars are blurred or soft proves the asshole had to adjust the camera.

Peace.

This is my last post on this issue. In your previous post, you called the man's picture, "untouched" and prior to that in the same post made reference to the diagonal positioning of the train across the frame of the picture. So, my reply to you was in response to THOSE mentions you made of lack of post work and composition.

Neither of us were there, so we don't know EXACTLY how it went down with the photographer.

This discussion you and I have had seems to boil down to: "Was his shot intentional or incidental?"

Seeing as we're not gonna convert to one another's religion on these points and it's becoming redundant - I'm all for saving time and agreeing to disagree.

 

[respiration]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

I don't care how the shot got taken.

Putting it on the front page was just a bad look. Right, wrong, drunk, sober... That dude has a family.

Not cool. Not cool.

...Gotta agree with this.

 

[ViCiouS]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

Peace.

This is my last post on this issue. In your previous post, you called the man's picture, "untouched" and prior to that in the same post made reference to the diagonal positioning of the train across the frame of the picture. So, my reply to you was in response to THOSE mentions you made of lack of post work and composition.

Neither of us were there, so we don't know EXACTLY how it went down with the photographer.

This discussion you and I have had seems to boil down to: "Was his shot intentional or incidental?"

Seeing as we're not gonna convert to one another's religion on these points and it's becoming redundant - I'm all for saving time and agreeing to disagree.

Apparently you skimmed what I wrote originally... please read my posts again...

1. I never said the photo was untouched - I said: I saw an untouched version of the pic... that the Post floated out in defense of the photog

2. There was no reference to composition... my comments on train orientation had to do with light and focus, ie train is moving at x feet per second - in a diagonal direction across field of view in low to un-even lighting - most times that means a picture with an out of focus train.

its the science of photography that exposes that photographer as a craven and a liar...

Its not religion... photography is an art, that uses science... the physics of light do not change... so if you are ignorant of the science how can we debate?

 

[FIVEFIVE]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

there is room under the platform where he is standing
there is room between the opposite tracks
there is room under the train
This is the type of thing you have to be mentally prepared for and just react.

I tell people this alla time. Hope I never have to do it, but knowing this may save you. climbing up NEVER works.

 

[respiration]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

Apparently you skimmed what I wrote originally... please read my posts again...

1. I never said the photo was untouched - I said: I saw an untouched version of the pic... that the Post floated out in defense of the photog

2. There was no reference to composition... my comments on train orientation had to do with light and focus, ie train is moving at x feet per second - in a diagonal direction across field of view in low to un-even lighting - most times that means a picture with an out of focus train.

its the science of photography that exposes that photographer as a craven and a liar...

Its not religion... photography is an art, that uses science... the physics of light do not change... so if you are ignorant of the science how can we debate?

Let me be clear, blackman. I never spoke of you having a lack of knowledge about anything, called you ignorant or said "you don't know what the fuck you were talking about". Aside from being allergic to redundancy, I do not wish to continue to type a thesis every time I reply here, nor will I discuss opposing points of view with someone who is unwilling to extend the same amount of respect that I come with in how I address them.

Our conversation on this topic is finished. Enjoy the rest of your day. Peace.

 

[BKF]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

Subway rules of engagement.

1. Mind your business.

2. Mind who's around you.

3. Stay away from the edge until your train comes.

either way RIP

Yes sir...

 

[LucaBrasi]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

Subway rules of engagement.

1. Mind your business.

2. Mind who's around you.

3. Stay away from the edge until your train comes.

either way RIP

Ever take the 4,5,6, downtown at 7-9am during the week? It's impossible to catch a ride if your not in front. I lean against a pole just in case.

 

[BVF]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

all of yall talking need to shut the fuck up. a dude can become a drug kingpin, leaving MANY people dead on his way to the top and then rappers will name themselves after them and you dumb niggas will pump his music. Now you're fucking with a photographer for not RISKING HIS LIFE to save a fucking stranger?

Y'all are the most hypocritical fucks around....seriously.

and another thing. I would've hopped out the way of that train like a kangaroo.

 

[mariano42]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

there is room under the platform where he is standing
there is room between the opposite tracks
there is room under the train
This is the type of thing you have to be mentally prepared for and just react.

co-sign

First .. until you're in the situation, you don't know how you're going to react.

Second, not everybody is built to react, some people freeze.

R.I.P.

Being from NYC, i'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.

co-sign.

the two post above makes sense.

alot of people say "i would do this" "I would do that"

you won't know what you would do unless you're in that situation so stop it.

and what exactly is the photographer is going to do? even with the emgerency brakes the man was going to die anyway. the train do come to a stop at that minute.

 

[Tuco]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

i know it's prolly hard to think at that moment where you've fallen/been pushed onto the tracks, but along w/ da other suggestions, you could also run to the end of da station if you have the time. there's stairs there that puts u back on da platform. this is even more reason why i stay posted on a wall/pillar when im in a train station. ppl takin pictures and shit should be charged w/ something....thats just fuckin ridiculous...da FUCK u takin a picture for? 2 decent sized guys should be all it takes to help a muthafuka out

 

[daking181]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

They saying the guy who died had an argument with his with and was carrying a bottle of vodka with him when he died

 

[Dirtylakerie]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

there is room under the platform where he is standing
there is room between the opposite tracks
there is room under the train
This is the type of thing you have to be mentally prepared for and just react.

where i catch the train they have instructions what to do just in case if your on the tracks.

 

[John_Gault]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

Fucking tagger. I work down there, son. Now who do you think knows more about the system?

Ok Boss, we'll see who's the 'SON' . . .

Are you a TRACK WORKER? Because if not, you're certainly not AS credible as you'd like to APPEAR. Custodians, transit cops and booth agents don't count (And no, not a diss to those jobs, everybody in NY knows those are good jobs to have). So let's not confuse things.

The reason why transit CANNOT post this is because those spaces ARE NOT uniform, while they may hold true for a majority of the stations, THEY DO NOT HOLD TRUE FOR ALL!!!


Peeps forget that even though it is just one system now, when it was built there were several different companies, and even within those companies stretches were built @ different times and with little governmental oversight since they were private companies, this is why in some areas everything is uniform, but in some they are not!

Folks can judge for themselves. BUT no matter WHERE you are on the MTA subway the trains and stations must have CLEARANCES. And no matter who the builders were, tracks and track ties are ALWAYS a specific width. The carriage that holds the wheels and manages the brakes and power, fit under the train and are narrower that the width of the train compartment itself.

Basically, you not only have the room beneath the platform, but you also have the extra distance from the platform edge to the wheel carriage, as well as the actual rail, which is even further away.

There is NO WHERE in the subway where this is NOT TRUE.


All one has to do is lye on their side (STILL/MOTIONLESS) with eyes closed, and wait for the train to pass. Life SAVED.

So, folks can either, get caught out there with the stupid 'I can't believe this is the end' look on their face -OR- or they can take my sage advice and survive.



Not bad for an ex tagger, eh son?



JG

 

[shaddyvillethug]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

You new York niggas crazy

 

[ViCiouS]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

Ok Boss, we'll see who's the 'SON' . . .

Are you a TRACK WORKER? Because if not, you're certainly not AS credible as you'd like to APPEAR. Custodians, transit cops and booth agents don't count (And no, not a diss to those jobs, everybody in NY knows those are good jobs to have). So let's not confuse things.









Folks can judge for themselves. BUT no matter WHERE you are on the MTA subway the trains and stations must have CLEARANCES. And no matter who the builders were, tracks and track ties are ALWAYS a specific width. The carriage that holds the wheels and manages the brakes and power, fit under the train and are narrower that the width of the train compartment itself.

Basically, you not only have the room beneath the platform, but you also have the extra distance from the platform edge to the wheel carriage, as well as the actual rail, which is even further away.

There is NO WHERE in the subway where this is NOT TRUE.


All one has to do is lye on their side (STILL/MOTIONLESS) with eyes closed, and wait for the train to pass. Life SAVED.

So, folks can either, get caught out there with the stupid 'I can't believe this is the end' look on their face -OR- or they can take my sage advice and survive.



Not bad for an ex tagger, eh son?



JG

you going get people killed...

the "safe space" in this pic is on the 3rd rail

why are you still even arguing? DJ Mark, a former MTA track worker broke the subway situation down for everyone... there is nothing uniform in the subway

- NONE OF THE CLEARANCES ARE UNIFORM !!!!-

For example: none of the trains that run the A C E F lines can fit in the 2 4 5 tunnels and vice versa, and there was time I think when the trains on the 2 and 3 couldn't fit the 4 5 or 6 lines but the redbirds on the 4 5 6 could run the 2 or 3 or something like that... and even on one line like the 4 train -tunnel and station clearances in Brooklyn literally change every 2 or 3 stations.

dude there are stations in Brooklyn and Queens with no cutouts and less than 12" of clearance under the platform only reliable advice is don't fall on the tracks and if you do fall on tracks, think fast and move faster.

 

[Star]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

I have been away from the City for a while
BUT that last picture ? is that in New York ?

I SWEAR the Third Rail is Always in the Center away from the Platforms. Subway and LIRR !

As instruction it is correct, There is Always space under the platform
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Three Different company's made their own subways lines that have differences
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Subway
http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ffhist.htm
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/The_First_Subway

 

[RepostKing]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

i think the safest place on the tracks is right in the middle but then again I dont stand near the edge as the train comes in...just a NY thang i guess

 

[John_Gault]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

you going get people killed...

the "safe space" in this pic is on the 3rd rail


Actually, as the poster STAR accurately pointed out . . . that's NOT an NYC train station. An error on my part.

It was just the CLEAREST pic I could find of what the clearance looks like.


why are you still even arguing? DJ Mark, a former MTA track worker broke the subway situation down for everyone... there is nothing uniform in the subway

- NONE OF THE CLEARANCES ARE UNIFORM !!!!-



First off . . . uniformity is not even the issue. The issue is whether or not there is SUFFICIENT SPACE beneath the edge of the platform. Doesn't matter if it's uniform, only matters that enough space is there. And for the average person there is.

And folks can SAY anything, about who they are. And I'll take him at his word about his job. BUT to prove me WRONG all ANYONE needs to do is counter my claim with ONE picture of a subway platform DISPROVING my claim.


Until then . . . I'm the only one that's PROVING and TALKING.


For example: none of the trains that run the A C E F lines can fit in the 2 4 5 tunnels and vice versa, and there was time I think when the trains on the 2 and 3 couldn't fit the 4 5 or 6 lines but the redbirds on the 4 5 6 could run the 2 or 3 or something like that... and even on one line like the 4 train -tunnel and station clearances in Brooklyn literally change every 2 or 3 stations.

dude there are stations in Brooklyn and Queens with no cutouts and less than 12" of clearance under the platform only reliable advice is don't fall on the tracks and if you do fall on tracks, think fast and move faster.

I SPECIFICALLY said SUBWAY stations, because the elevated outdoor stations have OTHER options to escape death, that make ducking under the platform less than optimal.


I'll be waiting on that proof.

I have been away from the City for a while
BUT that last picture ? is that in New York ?

I SWEAR the Third Rail is Always in the Center away from the Platforms. Subway and LIRR !

As instruction it is correct, There is Always space under the platform
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Three Different company's made their own subways lines that have differences
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Subway
http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ffhist.htm
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/The_First_Subway

Nah you right. I hadn't realized that. Thought it was on a line I don't frequent. Thanks for pointing that out.



JG

 

[Djmarkxr7]

Re: Man gets pushed to his death in the subway of NY - that's only part of the outrag

I SPECIFICALLY said SUBWAY stations, because the elevated outdoor stations have OTHER options to escape death, that make ducking under the platform less than optimal.


I'll be waiting on that proof.







Nah you right. I hadn't realized that. Thought it was on a line I don't frequent. Thanks for pointing that out.



JG

My earlier reply still stands, my statement WAS NOT referring to this specific situation but to the subway in general, if even ONE station either does NOT have clearance or a person can get touched by the contact shoe and the MTA has posted that there is safe clearance underneath, they've turned a 1 million dollar lawsuit into a 100 million dollar lawsuit, understand?!?

If a rule cannot apply for ALL, then it cannot apply for any, LEGALLY speaking.

Right off the bat I could tell you that the South Ferry stop on the 1 train and ANY OTHER STATION that has any type of similar curve along the platform DOES NOT HAVE THE CLEARANCE UNDERNEATH, not only because of the platform, but because train cars and their undercarriages are straight, on such turns the contact shoes can and do go under the platforms, this is also why track workers avoid cutouts along turns.

As far as the track ties, you are referring to the track gauge, which is the width between the tracks, I'm referring to the fact that some ties are split, with only about 18" being placed under each rail, and some run the full length all the way across, which you mostly see above ground but are located in sections underneath as well, in these areas YOU CANNOT FIT UNDER THE TRAIN!

I will point out that even before I was down there, the MTA did have an ongoing track tie replacement going on, to eventually replace most, if not all of the older wooden ties with concrete ones which make the trains quieter, how far along they are in this I do not know, they could be finished.

Now the station in question did indeed have ALL 3 avenues of escape available to Mr. Han, he may not been aware of them in part due to being inebriated, but let's not discount the fact that Mr.Han was 58 years old either.