Minimum wage not enough to beat poverty, research says

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
source: Deseret News

SALT LAKE CITY — For America's lowest-paid workers, working full-time isn't enough.

There isn't a state in the country where it is possible to afford a two-bedroom apartment at fair market rent working 40 hours a week at minimum wage, according to a report on rent affordability from the National Low Income Housing Coalition.

Even in Arkansas and West Virginia, which boast the nation's most affordable rent, a person with a minimum wage job would have to work 63 hours a week to rent a two-bedroom. In California, Maryland, Washington D.C., New Jersey and New York, a person would have to work at least 130 hours. In Hawaii, they'd have to work 175.

The federal minimum wage, which is $7.25, hasn't changed since 2009. In real terms, America's lowest-paid workers make less than they did in 1968, according to Remapping Debate. With an annual income of $15,080, a full-time minimum wage worker's salary is just under the 2012 federal poverty threshold of $15,130 for a family of two. It falls well below the poverty threshold for a family of three, which is $19,090.

"It’s clear that there’s a mismatch between the minimum wage and the cost of living (or at least a decent cost of living)," wrote New York Times editorial page editor Andrew Rosenthal in a recent blog post. "In New York, which is in the midst of a fight over raising the minimum wage, two individuals would need to work 68 hours a week each to manage the rent on a two-bedroom unit. If they have kids, the 70 percent of their paychecks left after rent won’t get them very far."

Saying the minimum wage hasn't kept pace with inflation, three U.S. Congressmen are pushing to raise the federal standard to $10 an hour, CBS News reported. Reps. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich.; Jesse Jackson Jr., D-Ill.; and Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, proposed a bill Wednesday that would boost the wage and require an annual increase tied to inflation.

“This legislation is long overdue and sorely needed," Conyers said. "More than 30 million Americans would see their wages increased, which would provide an immediate boost to the economy."

Some argue, though, that raising the minimum wage would actually hurt the poor.

"Few policies are as destructive as the minimum wage at keeping the young and least skilled out of the job market," The Wall Street Journal recently opined. "By setting an arbitrary wage floor, politicians make it impossible for businesses to hire people for many entry-level positions. The jobs simply disappear."

A minimum wage boost earlier this decade resulted in a roughly 20 percent cut in jobs for young, low-skilled workers, according to recent research from Cornell University. The National Restaurant Association, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation for Independent Business have all spoken out against a wage hike.

"Businesses who have lived with minimum-wage increases and economists who have studied the issue say minimum-wage hikes don’t increase spending, nor lower unemployment," wrote business journalist Elizabeth MacDonald in a editorial for Fox News. "On the contrary, businesses say they have to use more profits for pay, cutting into job creation, especially when the economy is stuck in neutral gear."

Two-thirds of Americans support raising the minimum wage, according to an October poll from the Public Religion Research Institute.

During his 2008 campaign, President Barack Obama promised to bump the minimum wage to $9.50 by 2011. Presidential hopeful Mitt Romney has said he believes the minimum wage should rise with inflation, but doesn't support raising it while unemployment is high.
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator

This post appears to be related to the subject matter of this thread:


A minimum wage just creates desperate people.

He's practically begging you to stop making work illegal.



'I just wanted money for my birthday!' robbery suspect tells cops

By Mitch Smith and Rosemary R. Sobol
Tribune reporters
6:18 p.m. CST, December 2, 2012

After officers arrested Jerry Warren Jr. on suspicion of committing a Wicker Park robbery Saturday, the soon-to-be-22-year-old said he only wanted some birthday money, authorities said today.

His plan didn’t work. Warren, who police say netted a whopping $4 in the robbery, was ordered held Sunday on $125,000 bond. He will have to post $12,500--3,125 times more than he’s accused of stealing--to leave jail.

Warren, of the 2700 block of West Maypole Avenue, is suspected of robbing a 29-year-old woman Saturday in the 1800 block of West Ellen Street about 8 p.m. Saturday. After demanding money and being told that she had none, Warren made off with $4, according to a police report.

A description of the robbery suspect was broadcast to officers, and Warren was detained walking nearby. The victim, who was treated and released for blunt trauma, identified Warren as the robber, prosecutors said.

As the 21-year-old was placed in custody, Warren told officers he had been unsuccessful finding a job and just wanted some money before his Dec. 19 birthday, according to a report.

"I just wanted money for my birthday!" Warren told officers, according to a report. "I’m looking for work and can’t find any! Please! I don’t want to go to jail for $4!"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tells-cops-20121202,0,3064719.story?track=rss





 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
ann-romney-let-them-eat-cake1.jpg
 

Lamarr

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Registered
Workers are paid based on how productive they are for their employer. That productivity cannot be mandated, which is the very reason you cannot mandate wage. It will result in higher unemployment & costs.

Who believes a person should recieve a benefit they did not work for?
 

Greed

Star
Registered
Workers are paid based on how productive they are for their employer. That productivity cannot be mandated, which is the very reason you cannot mandate wage. It will result in higher unemployment & costs.

Who believes a person should recieve a benefit they did not work for?
Have you been to America?

We have a whole society full of beggars. No one has any shame from bankers to BGOL posters.
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Workers are paid based on how productive they are for their employer. That productivity cannot be mandated, which is the very reason you cannot mandate wage. It will result in higher unemployment & costs.

Who believes a person should recieve a benefit they did not work for?

It will result in higher unemployment

Pulling talking points out of your ass as usual and unable to prove them!

That productivity cannot be mandated


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ioTmVSpdjkE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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desideratum

Potential Star
Registered
Minimum wage is not a vehicle for people to live on, it was never meant for people to live on. Entry level positions that provide minimum wage is nothing more than that, an entry level position. People are not supposed to work in a entry level position for very long. People are supposed to acquire the skills and education necessary to obtain a better paying job. Minimum wage is an incentive for those beginning work to work harder to get off minimum wage.
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Minimum wage is not a vehicle for people to live on, it was never meant for people to live on. Entry level positions that provide minimum wage is nothing more than that, an entry level position. People are not supposed to work in a entry level position for very long. People are supposed to acquire the skills and education necessary to obtain a better paying job. Minimum wage is an incentive for those beginning work to work harder to get off minimum wage.


Poor ignorant person. Pick up a book and turn off Faux Snooze!


Fair Labor Standards Act
 

Upgrade Dave

Rising Star
Registered
Workers are paid based on how productive they are for their employer. That productivity cannot be mandated, which is the very reason you cannot mandate wage. It will result in higher unemployment & costs.

Who believes a person should recieve a benefit they did not work for?

This isn't true and you have to know that. Productivity has been up for years now but wages stagnant.

Ya'll kill me acting like there isn't a need for a federal minimum wage. If companies actually paid employees decent wages across the board, minimum wage laws would have never been enacted in the first place.
 

Greed

Star
Registered
Productivity has been up for years now but wages stagnant.
Why is that?

Ya'll kill me acting like there isn't a need for a federal minimum wage. If companies actually paid employees decent wages across the board, minimum wage laws would have never been enacted in the first place.
How do politicians measure what is decent? Republicans use business group lobbyist. Democrats use union lobbyist.

Which one is addressing this kid that's not working at all?
A minimum wage just creates desperate people.

He's practically begging you to stop making work illegal.



'I just wanted money for my birthday!' robbery suspect tells cops

By Mitch Smith and Rosemary R. Sobol
Tribune reporters
6:18 p.m. CST, December 2, 2012

After officers arrested Jerry Warren Jr. on suspicion of committing a Wicker Park robbery Saturday, the soon-to-be-22-year-old said he only wanted some birthday money, authorities said today.

His plan didn’t work. Warren, who police say netted a whopping $4 in the robbery, was ordered held Sunday on $125,000 bond. He will have to post $12,500--3,125 times more than he’s accused of stealing--to leave jail.

Warren, of the 2700 block of West Maypole Avenue, is suspected of robbing a 29-year-old woman Saturday in the 1800 block of West Ellen Street about 8 p.m. Saturday. After demanding money and being told that she had none, Warren made off with $4, according to a police report.

A description of the robbery suspect was broadcast to officers, and Warren was detained walking nearby. The victim, who was treated and released for blunt trauma, identified Warren as the robber, prosecutors said.

As the 21-year-old was placed in custody, Warren told officers he had been unsuccessful finding a job and just wanted some money before his Dec. 19 birthday, according to a report.

"I just wanted money for my birthday!" Warren told officers, according to a report. "I’m looking for work and can’t find any! Please! I don’t want to go to jail for $4!"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tells-cops-20121202,0,3064719.story?track=rss
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
How do politicians measure what is decent? Republicans use business group lobbyist. Democrats use union lobbyist.

Which one is addressing this kid that's not working at all?

Do YOU know what that kid's work ethic is ??? What are his qualifications; what is his work history; what kind of job is he looking for right now; and what pay-range is he in the market for right now ???




.
 

Upgrade Dave

Rising Star
Registered
How do politicians measure what is decent? Republicans use business group lobbyist. Democrats use union lobbyist.

Between those two opposing forces they can come to a compromise. Without Minimum wage laws, it's just the business groups making the decisions for most industries.

Which one is addressing this kid that's not working at all?

What kid? That 21 yr old? His problem isn't minimum wage laws, it's bad judgement. I didn't get a job until I was 21 and it never crossed my mind that I needed to rob people.
 

Greed

Star
Registered
Do YOU know what that kid's work ethic is ??? What are his qualifications; what is his work history; what kind of job is he looking for right now; and what pay-range is he in the market for right now ???




.
I'm going to say he has no skills or anything marketable. Now what?
 

Greed

Star
Registered
Between those two opposing forces they can come to a compromise. Without Minimum wage laws, it's just the business groups making the decisions for most industries.
And what do people that don't have jobs get out of that compromise?



What kid? That 21 yr old? His problem isn't minimum wage laws, it's bad judgement. I didn't get a job until I was 21 and it never crossed my mind that I needed to rob people.
Yes, that 21 year old kid that has never grown up or had adult responsibilities. You call it bad judgement when you direct him along a self-destructive path, then punish him when he takes it.

You think he's lying when he's crying to the cops about not wanting to go to jail over $4 and he was just tired of not having anything, where people around him also have nothing?

You think when he says why he did it, he doesn't know what he's talking about?
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
I'm going to say he has no skills or anything marketable. Now what?

Your opinion was baseless, foundationless, unsupported, unsubstantiated . . .

Like this:


. . . that 21 year old kid that has never grown up or had adult responsibilities. You call it bad judgement when you direct him along a self-destructive path, then punish him when he takes it.

You think he's lying when he's crying to the cops about not wanting to go to jail over $4 and he was just tired of not having anything, where people around him also have nothing?

You think when he says why he did it, he doesn't know what he's talking about?

supposition, assumption, conjecture, speculation . . .




.
 

Greed

Star
Registered
Do YOU know what that kid's work ethic is ??? What are his qualifications; what is his work history; what kind of job is he looking for right now; and what pay-range is he in the market for right now ???
70% of young black men unemployed.

Apparently the reasons are they have questionable work ethics, unsatisfactory qualifications, unattractive work history, and have unrealistic expectations of jobs and pay-ranges.

I see the argument is now shifting to they deserve it. gene said it outright now you're brave enough to at least allude to it as your honest perception.
Your opinion was baseless, foundationless, unsupported, unsubstantiated . . .

Like this:



supposition, assumption, conjecture, speculation . . .
You personify the reality of his chances in life. Poor people are treated like they are mildly retarded and need to be taken care of while also ignoring their input.

The state of his life has already been determined and millions of others before him and millions after him will face a predictable result from not being allowed to work.
 

Upgrade Dave

Rising Star
Registered
And what do people that don't have jobs get out of that compromise?

A better wage and better working conditions when they get a job.




Yes, that 21 year old kid that has never grown up or had adult responsibilities. You call it bad judgement when you direct him along a self-destructive path, then punish him when he takes it.

You think he's lying when he's crying to the cops about not wanting to go to jail over $4 and he was just tired of not having anything, where people around him also have nothing?

You think when he says why he did it, he doesn't know what he's talking about?

None of this has anything to do with minimum wage laws. This is the exact type of conversation that's been boring me with this board lately.
I direct him anywhere, the probably poor job his parents did take that credit.
I don't care if he's lying. Completely irrelevent. He's not the only one poor and yet, most poor people don't rob other people.

70% of young black men unemployed.

Apparently the reasons are they have questionable work ethics, unsatisfactory qualifications, unattractive work history, and have unrealistic expectations of jobs and pay-ranges.

I see the argument is now shifting to they deserve it. gene said it outright now you're brave enough to at least allude to it as your honest perception.

You personify the reality of his chances in life. Poor people are treated like they are mildly retarded and need to be taken care of while also ignoring their input.

The state of his life has already been determined and millions of others before him and millions after him will face a predictable result from not being allowed to work.

You're talking to Que and Que can defend himself but I don't see him saying any of that.
We're talking about a very specific young man, not the whole of young Black men or the masses of poor people so you trying to make that reach is intellectually dishonest.
Trying to remain on topic, minimum wage laws aren't keeping this man from working (what they do is keep people from working and still owing the job money like in the "good ol days")but getting a criminal record will.
 

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
Apparently the reasons are they have questionable work ethics, unsatisfactory qualifications, unattractive work history, and have unrealistic expectations of jobs and pay-ranges.

I see the argument is now shifting to they deserve it. gene said it outright now you're brave enough to at least allude to it as your honest perception.

No sir; you said:

A minimum wage just creates desperate people.

He's practically begging you to stop making work illegal.

and I was simply trying to find out the basis for your opinions/assumptions, i.e., how you could equate the existence of the minimum wage with the commission of the crime. Again, you're not very good at reading other people's mind.




You personify the reality of his chances in life. Poor people are treated like they are mildly retarded and need to be taken care of while also ignoring their input.

The state of his life has already been determined and millions of others before him and millions after him will face a predictable result from not being allowed to work.

Yada, yada. Maybe you should have asked for HIS/THEIR INPUT -- instead of substituting yours, for his. :hmm:

He might not agree with your paternalistic minimum wage theory, ya think ?



.
 

Greed

Star
Registered
A better wage and better working conditions when they get a job.
And until then?

None of this has anything to do with minimum wage laws. This is the exact type of conversation that's been boring me with this board lately.
I direct him anywhere, the probably poor job his parents did take that credit.
I don't care if he's lying. Completely irrelevent. He's not the only one poor and yet, most poor people don't rob other people.
So why people work has nothing to do with the dynamics of the labor market? You support laws that say work isn't worth having if it's under a certain wage, then say it's for the sake of people who can't find jobs at that arbitrary wage.

I always ask who the fuck do any of you think you are to make that decision for any random person, but no one offers up anything.

You're talking to Que and Que can defend himself but I don't see him saying any of that.
We're talking about a very specific young man, not the whole of young Black men or the masses of poor people so you trying to make that reach is intellectually dishonest.
Trying to remain on topic, minimum wage laws aren't keeping this man from working (what they do is keep people from working and still owing the job money like in the "good ol days")but getting a criminal record will.
Que has no morally defensible position, once again who the fuck is Que and who are you to tell any random person what kind of job they are allowed to take.

You're in complete denial if you promote that the cost of hiring someone doesn't matter to employers if that employer doesn't think that person will make it up in productivity.

It doesn't even matter that productivity and wages no longer have a strong connection. If I'm paying you $5/hour, you better do $5/hour worth of work and it doesn't matter that I eventually make $80/hour off of you. You better cover the $5. Low-skilled people don't always cover minimum wage, they get fired or never hired at all.

The minimum wage is a minimum cost to employers. Do employers make decisions based on cost? All employers do is rent/buy a machine to replace that job or make others work harder to make up for that position thats too expensive to hire someone for.

You think I cited some isolated incident. 70% unemployment among young black men. Why are they not getting hired? We've heard Que's reasons, whats your's?
 

Upgrade Dave

Rising Star
Registered
And until then?

What about it? Most people go through a period of unemployment in their life. You find another job even if you have to create it yourself.

So why people work has nothing to do with the dynamics of the labor market? You support laws that say work isn't worth having if it's under a certain wage, then say it's for the sake of people who can't find jobs at that arbitrary wage.

I always ask who the fuck do any of you think you are to make that decision for any random person, but no one offers up anything.

Because it's a stupid question. I support laws that say you must pay people a certain wage.



Que has no morally defensible position, once again who the fuck is Que and who are you to tell any random person what kind of job they are allowed to take.

:hmm::smh: Stop saying things that aren't true. Minimum wage laws don't prevent anyone from seeking any job but it does force employers to pay them something other than the barest minimum they're willing to part with.


You're in complete denial if you promote that the cost of hiring someone doesn't matter to employers if that employer doesn't think that person will make it up in productivity.
It doesn't even matter that productivity and wages no longer have a strong connection. If I'm paying you $5/hour, you better do $5/hour worth of work and it doesn't matter that I eventually make $80/hour off of you. You better cover the $5. Low-skilled people don't always cover minimum wage, they get fired or never hired at all.

The minimum wage is a minimum cost to employers. Do employers make decisions based on cost? All employers do is rent/buy a machine to replace that job or make others work harder to make up for that position thats too expensive to hire someone for.

You think I cited some isolated incident. 70% unemployment among young black men. Why are they not getting hired? We've heard Que's reasons, whats your's?

This is what drives me crazy about you and Cruise: don't try to put words in my mouth. I never said that. Never insinuated it. Never suggested it. Build strawmen on your time but when you're talking to me, address exactly what I said or don't quote me. If you have a question about what I mean, ask me.

I don't "think" you cited an isolated incident, you did. Do 70% of young Black men commit crimes? No so when you find one, you're finding the exception, not the norm.
 
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